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87Iroc

Front Wheel Bearings/Brakes-450 Foreman

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Posted (edited)

After 8 weeks of dealing with the engine. Never been more happy to dig in to something else on the quad. 

 

When I got it all bolted back together to take it for a test drive yesterday....reconfirmed my suspicion that the front wheel bearings are likely shot on both sides. When you push side to side, you can see the CV shafts 'wobbling' independent of the spindles. I presume this isn't normal. From looking at the diagram of how it goes together. I can't fathom its normal. Hoping the spindles are OK. Not somethign you'd notice, I don't think, unless you did it w/fenders off like it is now.

 

So I ordered  a set of seals and wheel bearings. I 'think' the ball joints are all OK. I'll inspect them as I do wheel bearings. Should I order new circlips too? I saw some kits came with them.

 

So what am I in for? Assume I have to separate the spindle from the ball joints? Pull circlip. Slide/hammer out bearing. New seals, Grease, put back together. Good as new?

 

Thanks oh gurus of foreman's.

 

98 Foreman 450S for those that haven't seen the drama in the engine forum.

 

I am going to take a gander at the brakes, but don't think I"m going to mess with them right now. Start saving pennies for a disk brake upgrade. Right now I have 0 front brakes.

 

Greg

Edited by 87Iroc

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Yep, remove knuckles, remove seals, remove circlip, press/knock old bearing out, knock new bearing in, replace circlip, replace seals.

 

What kind of bearings did you order?

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1 hour ago, 87Iroc said:

I ordered a kit off amazon. Pivot works...

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007S0KG3Q/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

I noted some were sealed bearings and some weren't. Quick check of the Honda manual mentioned greasing them. So figured the unsealed were factory.

mistake !..lol. those are china bearings, i would have went with oem, or boss bearings.

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Boss are china too Shadetree!

 

I would see what those Pivotworks bearings look like when you get them.  If they have the seals in them, I'd send them back and buy Honda bearings.  If the sides are open you might have gotten some old stock Pivotworks bearings from before they consolidated with All Balls.  Current production Pivotworks bearings are just repackaged All Balls with a "One time (lifetime) free replacement".

 

I guess if you don't mind changing bearings you get two sets for the price of one, but they certainly won't last as long as OEM, unless you luck out and get NOS (new old stock) Pivotworks bearings from before the buyout.  Again, no seals-good.  Seals-bad.

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I put all Honda inside the engine. Spent money where it made sense.  Ok with China up front to save a few bucks and keep me rolling right now.  I bet I put less than 50 miles a year on this thing on my meeger land. 
 

I will inspect and see.  Be here Wednesday.  

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The old Pivotworks bearings were good.  I put a set in back in 2014 and just replaced them last summer (which is good for around here with my riding conditions).  Got a free replacement set in the mail when I sent them in for the "lifetime guarantee".

 

Ordered several sets on Black Friday last year.   Amazon had them for like $22-23/set, so I ordered 5 sets of them (each with a free replacement to come!). 

 

Got them and they had seals in the sides with All Balls part numbers on them.  Called Pivotworks and they confirmed that they were bought out by the same parent company that owns All Balls, and that the new Pivotworks bearings are simply All Balls with a one time free replacement. 

 

If they do have seals in them, pop the seals out and pack them full of good grease before you install them. 

 

 

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25 minutes ago, jeepwm69 said:

Boss are china too Shadetree!

 

I would see what those Pivotworks bearings look like when you get them.  If they have the seals in them, I'd send them back and buy Honda bearings.  If the sides are open you might have gotten some old stock Pivotworks bearings from before they consolidated with All Balls.  Current production Pivotworks bearings are just repackaged All Balls with a "One time (lifetime) free replacement".

 

I guess if you don't mind changing bearings you get two sets for the price of one, but they certainly won't last as long as OEM, unless you luck out and get NOS (new old stock) Pivotworks bearings from before the buyout.  Again, no seals-good.  Seals-bad.

they may have not been yrs ago ?..lol. but i know i still have them in my '89 trx350D, and so far, so good..i'd buy boss before pivot works any day !..lol. but oem is best for sure !.

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! it. I'm eyeballing front brake parts now. Wife is going to kill me. 

 

Put 5 miles on it now. I have like no brakes. Back ones owrk, but its merely a suggestion that I want to stop. Daughter is wanting to ride it too. Figure I'll let her take it for a spin before I tear the front end down(Which would be a good time to do front brakes)

 

SuperATV is China I understand...but I have friends that work there and they're an Indiana company(I have considered working for them if my current gig goes south) for their R&D so am considering them....but their kit says not for OEM Alum Rims. I have OEM Alum Rims(from a rancher maybe? Look like steel wheels but are alum). They are sold out about everywhere anyway.

 

HiLifter? They don't say anything about Alum, just 12", which I have. Its about a 100 more but could have the kit Friday.

 

I assume its not worth sinking 200 in front drum brakes, but am considering it to save a few bucks right now. If I do front drum rebuild. I see a kit that has pads, seals, for like 80 bucks. I can get wheel cylinders from RM ATV for 100 it appears. So maybe 180 if I don't find other 'messes' when I pull drums off.

 

Thoughts?

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Aluminum rims are no problems ,  my 300's and 450s  have aluminum rims and Super ATV kits , I do run a one inch spacer to clear the rim and it works out perfect for me as I run  2 inch spacers in the rear with the 250 rear ends and it sits perfect , since , they have added a sentence in their  instructions that you can grind a bit off the corner of the caliper to clear the rim , I seen disc kits last week on e-bay 

 

Pivot  Works was good stuff back when and all I would buy  , it is a shane they went to the way side  , heard the story that AllBalls bought them out and now all you get is the Pivot Works name !!! I personally have had terrible luck with AllBalls 

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as i said on the phone just now..go high lifter, dont look back !. first upgrade i did to my '03 trx450fm, then a warn 2500-s winch,roller fairlead, KFI mounting plate, and one tennis ball for a hook stopper..lol.

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I think if you mention this forum SuperATV gives you a forum member discount. 

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Pivotworks bearings came in with seals on them. Their pic in their ad is outdated then.

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1 hour ago, 87Iroc said:

Pivotworks bearings came in with seals on them. Their pic in their ad is outdated then.

 

If you look at the numbers on the bearings, and google them, you'll get All Balls.

 

Pack them full of good syn grease, and cross your fingers.  Make sure you keep your receipt too, so when they go you can get a replacement set.

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5 hours ago, jeepwm69 said:

I think if you mention this forum SuperATV gives you a forum member discount. 

87  bought SuperATV and didn't know about asking for the 10% discount , told him to call them and ask for a credit , shoot 10% thats a free set of replacement pads ,  LOL 

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Got the left front bearing changed. It was a sealed bearing, so had been done before. Came out in pieces. Packed wheel bearing grease in to new bearing and put it in. The seal surface on the hub was chewed up pretty good...so doubt the seal will last long. 

 

Right Front the circlip is fighting me. Will get it tomorrow.

 

What is that little collar for the kit came with? I think it looks like a crush bushing. Guessing maybe it slides in to outer portion of hub? Maybe I need to get old one out?

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I have never changed that bushing , I would guess for me by the time that bushing gets bad for me then the whole hub needs changing out 

 

 

Wheel Bearing Grease ???  What kind we talking about ???  Not that black stuff  ---     I am sure there some different views on what is the best  grease to use , I like use stuff with Marine in the title , usually comes in pretty bright vibrant colors , done used me some  purple , red , green , blue 

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When you ride in the mud , the hubs get a wear ring right wear the seal seats , amazing how rubber will wear into steel , wish there was a wear ring for that 

 

that snap ring gets rusted into the groove , I will spray it with good penetrating oil such as AeroKroil , take a punch and knock the bearing in away from the snap ring , it might have some pressure against it , or it might break away the rust , then if the snap ring ears are not moving with the pliers ,  I will use a screwdriver and a hammer to get it free before trying the pliers again , having a good set of pliers is important 

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Posted (edited)

Got it done.  


Yes.  Black grease.  Whoops.  I have some synthetic but didn’t use it as I don’t have a lot left. Used black wheel bearing grease.  DOH! Never thought about it.  Rookie

I think right side was still original as it didn’t have seal on bearing. Actually felt ok but lots of dirt in it.  I think there’s something else on right side weak as it still wobbles some.  Left side cleared up completely.  
 

this is more wear than a seal groove which I am used to seeing.  See pic below.  It’s blurry but groove is there with a lot of rust pitting.  Cleaned both sides down to clean metal with wire wheel. 
 

got a mid level set of pliers at harbor freight and the clip was out in seconds.  They were what I wanted when bought cheap ones but were sold out. 

ABD3963E-4FC2-452C-A2AB-F9D97E457455.jpeg

image.jpg

Edited by 87Iroc
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I'd run that hub.  Bearings are only going to last so long in mud/water, so yes, it would shorten the life of the bearing, but not like they're going to last that long in what I ride in anyway.

 

On the right side wobble, was the old bearing hard to get out, and was the new bearing hard to get in?  Sometimes the knuckle wears out and won't hold the new bearing tightly.

 

You can also get a cheap chinese out of spec bearing that is a hair smaller than it should be.  That's what happened to me and why I swore off All Balls bearings.

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I have used worst than that before on the hub , emery paper it smooth 

 

What's the story of your first oil change coming out looking like never-sieze ( metallic ) is that what I read ? 

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1 hour ago, Fishfiles said:

I have used worst than that before on the hub , emery paper it smooth 

 

What's the story of your first oil change coming out looking like never-sieze ( metallic ) is that what I read ? 


Thanks guys.  
 

not on the atv for first oil change.  That’s what I’m used to when I rebuild a v8.  Assy lube plus 8 cylinders wearing in against the cylinder walls causes first oil change to be metalicy.  Even better if it’s a flat tappet cam. 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, jeepwm69 said:

I'd run that hub.  Bearings are only going to last so long in mud/water, so yes, it would shorten the life of the bearing, but not like they're going to last that long in what I ride in anyway.

 

On the right side wobble, was the old bearing hard to get out, and was the new bearing hard to get in?  Sometimes the knuckle wears out and won't hold the new bearing tightly.

 

You can also get a cheap chinese out of spec bearing that is a hair smaller than it should be.  That's what happened to me and why I swore off All Balls bearings.


right side fought me a little then when it got to a point it just slid in with finger.  OD of old bearing was dark and there was rust in hub. I cleaned it out with carb clean and a rag before reassembling. 
 

I will keep an eye on it

Edited by 87Iroc

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Actually.  Put tires back on.  Both sides wobble as much as they did before. Even with left one coming out in pieces? Bearings or worn spindles from years of abuse? Little of both?

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On 8/21/2020 at 12:56 PM, 87Iroc said:

Actually.  Put tires back on.  Both sides wobble as much as they did before. Even with left one coming out in pieces? Bearings or worn spindles from years of abuse? Little of both?

you already know what i am going to say ?!..lol. ditch the china junk, put oem bearings in there, tighten down the castle nut good, see if you still have any wobble ?. if you do ?, then the knuckle is worn ?, or the end of the cv joint where it rides against the bearing is worn ?.

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