Jump to content
flatcroaker

shifting problems !!

Recommended Posts

1990 300 4 x 4 honda . removed l case cover looking to find why my atv started not shifting correctly. found shift drum center bolt had came loose. got a new one and installed it , the manual i have didnt give torque settings . thats where i think i messed up the shifting timing. dont know my own strength i guess , lol, tried to get it tight and it made an odd noise like it went past the stop. before i cold  let off the wrench. not a bolt snapping noise at all, more like a slow roll over a bump noise. there is what appears to be a timing mark on the shift drum. manuals i have dont say anything about the little dot (timing mark). can anyone help me w this? also  replaced the 2 dowel pins at shift drum and return spring pin (shift spindle)(bolt). made sure i aligned the dowel pin under the drum. after several attempts of not shifting at all to shifting up through all 4 gears and stuck there, now it wont down shift at all w/o taking the shift drum apart , shifts fine w/o drum bolt installed. reverse and n. light up like they are supposed to. please can some one help me out here. its a good machine for what i use it for hauling logs and checking trail cams. i have looked through my manual and no trouble shooting on shift drum or linkage . guess i need professional help,  lol !thats why i am here ! thanks for your time. conrad.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

Flatcroaker , welcome to the atvhonda.com forum --- they like when you go to the introduction thread and make a post  ----- 

I have 300s , have seen them shift up and not down or vice versa ,when that happened to me, had to take the right  side cover off and reindex the shift lever to the clutch drum , if that shaft is one spline off either way it will shift up and not down  , you didn't happen to pull out on #18 and 19 image.png 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Posted (edited)

yes i pulled them off to replace the pin behind shift spindle # 21

 

Edited by flatcroaker
add part number

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

Melatv provided us with this helpful  pic ,   shows in  the left pic , the shift arm is pointing directly to the center of the shaft in the middle of the clutch basket , and the pic on the right is off a spline or two and is not pointing to the middle of the shaft ---   if it is off one way it will shift down but not back up , and off the other way it will shift up but not down ----there is a dot on the shift arm and a arrow on the case for alignment  , but it needs to look like the left pic when done  ---- this might be your problem 

image.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

so i use my x-ray vision to see that inside the r side cover or take it off i guess since my x-ray vision is in shop. lol . i was hoping to not have to pull r side but my dumb...  got to do things the hard way. thanks for your help. will pull later tonight and see if thats the problem. wish me luck.

  • Like 2
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

f.f. can u tell me what the dot is for on shift drum ? looks like a timing mark to me its a perfect dot from factory i believe. but no match mark that i can see. just curious why its there 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
1 minute ago, flatcroaker said:

f.f. can u tell me what the dot is for on shift drum ? looks like a timing mark to me its a perfect dot from factory i believe. but no match mark that i can see. just curious why its there 

FC , can't see why there is a dot , the doles index it , can you take a pic of the dot !!!  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
 
Just now, Fishfiles said:

Calling @Shadetree !!! 

 

ya rang ??...lol.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

hey flat, are you in the states ?, if so ?, i'll pm you my cell number, will walk ya through this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

 

55 minutes ago, shadetree said:

hey flat, are you in the states ?, if so ?, i'll pm you my cell number, will walk ya through this.

I smell a gas donation coming again.....lol

  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

while i wait for the call from you flat, i'll make this simple as i can ?, but there is no way to walk you through this fast !..lol. first off, you will need to put the left side back together correctly, so with that said, lets begin !.

pull the shifting parts all back out of the left side, all the way back down to the end of the shift drum. now the fun starts !. don't worry about the dot on the rim of the cup for the ratchet paws !, its useless !!!. i'm gonna have you do it my way, and it will be right !. pull the center bolt back out of the shift drum cup, look on the back of the cup, notice the indention ?, now notice the dowel pin that goes in the end of the shift drum , when you install the cup back onto the end of the shift drum, ITS VERY IMPORTANT TO LINE UP THAT DOWEL PIN TO THE INDENTION TO THE BACK SIDE OF THE CUP !. where you will fight this is with the star wheel and its tough spring ( this is the arm that has the wheel on the end of it ), the wheel must catch in the cut-outs of the cup when installed, and this can be hard to get it all lined up when putting it together. your main focus here is to MAKE SURE THAT DOWEL PIN FITS CENTERED IN THE BACK SIDE OF THE CUP !!. 

Once you have the cup bolted back onto the shift drum, and manage to get the star wheel and its tough spring all back installed ?, install the ratchet paws back inside the center of the cup, make sure you have the small washer looking wheel facing forward once the ratchet paws are installed inside the cup !, now install the metal plate facing the correct way on the two mounting bolts. once this is done, slide the shifting shaft into the case hole, as you get down into the shifting shaft area, left side rest on that small wheel, the large spring will fit over the peg thats sticking out of the case, this is your return spring, MAKE SURE THE TANGS ON THE SPRING ARE ON BOTH SIDES OF THE PEG !!!. 

 

Now slide the thrust washer back onto the end of the shifting shaft, double check all your work so far, make sure you installed everything correctly ?!!!. install the stator cover ( this is the left hand side cover, pay close attention to that one bolt that calls for a copper washer on it !!, should be a raised arrow on the cover pointing at the bolt hole ?, this bolt must have a copper washer under the head, or it will leak engine oil !. temporary install the foot shift lever onto the shaft, shift up or down, while you spin the wheel to check to see if you have it in neutral, do this until you get the transmission in neutral.

 

Now go to the right side, yes..you must pull this side in order to finish the job !. you may or may not tear the gasket when doing so ?, so plan on having a new side cover gasket on hand !. DO NOT USE RTV SEALANT FOR A GASKET !!!, YOU MUST USE A OEM GASKET !!. WARNING !!!!!!!, CAUTION WHEN REMOVING RIGHT SIDE COVER !!, there is a few thrust washers and kick starter shaft, reverse lever shaft that can, and will come out !!!, you do not want the kick starter lever to come out of the engine for sure !!!, reverse lever is fine if it pops out ?, spec if you have a new gasket on hand ?!!.

 

Remove all the cover bolts ( may want to drain your engine oil..or tilt on left side at 45 degree's ? ), once all the cover bolts are out, carefully tap the cover loose, while you are doing this, you want to be holding the kick starter shaft in at all times !!!, this is where another person comes in handy, they tap, you push the kick starter shaft in while they tap. if you get the cover off without letting the kick starter shaft come out ?, your home free so to speak !. i find this job easier with the engine oil drained, so the tapper person can get to the tabs where you work the cover off.

 

Ok, don't forget to remove the reverse lever bolt that holds the outside lever onto the reverse shaft lever, but if you missed this step ?, its no big deal, you still need to get the bolt off the outside of the cover, and remove the shaft out of the cover. now pull the oil pick up screen out of the middle lower of the engine, it will be behind the gasket, so this means you will tear the gasket to remove it ( this is why i said have a new gasket on hand ! ). ok, there is 3 thrust washers you must put back on spots, one large for the kick starter shaft, one small washer goes on the shifting shaft clutch arm, and the last small washer goes on the reverse lever shaft before you put the cover back on !. DO NOT LOOSE OR LEAVE THESE WASHERS OUT !.

 

Ok, where the shifting shaft pokes through the case at lower left side, look back in there at where the shaft is coming through the case, notice there is a raised arrow with its point, pointing at the shaft ?, now look at the clutch arm, on the end of the arm, at the left back side of it, there is a punch mark stamped in it, slide the arm onto the shaft, all while keeping this punch mark lined up with that raised arrow at the back, THEY MUST LINE UP, OR IT WILL NOT SHIFT RIGHT !. install the small washer onto the clutch arm on the end. find the reverse lever, has a spring on it, this lever has a notch on it, the spring has a hook on it, it pre-loads when installed correctly on the lever, carefully install the reverse lever into the case hole, when you get close to the engine case, you will notice that the long end of the spring is facing down towards about 4-5 o'clock , take a screw driver, place it under the long end of the spring tang, while you tap the lever back into the case hole, wedge the screw driver under the spring tang, lift up and over the case edge as you tap the lever back in, the long end of the spring rest up on top of the oil filter pick up case area., now install the small washer on the end of it. make sure the large washer is back on the kick starter shaft ?

 

I do not know if you got this side of the shift drum cup installed correctly or not ?, you will need to re-check this work to make sure you have it installed right ?. if you have removed all of these parts, and put it back together ?, then more than likely you may have done it wrong ?. get back to me on this if you did it wrong ?, but you said you are getting a neutral light ?, so gonna say you got it right !. with the cover still off, reach to the change clutch, with your finger, grab hold of the tab on the friction disk, see if you can push and pull the tabs in and out ?, if you can ?, then your friction disk are messed up, and this explains alot as to why it wont move !. you will need to pull it all down in order to correct this. this means you must pull the centrifugal clutch first, because you can not remove the change clutch without getting the centrifugal clutch off first !. WARNING !!!!, THE CENTRIFUGAL CLUTCH HAS LEFT HAND THREADS ON THE CRANK SHAFT HOLDING IT ON !!. CLOCK WISE TO REMOVE THE STAKED NUT !. THE CHANGE CLUTCH HAS RIGHT HAND THREADS. if you get the clutch off ( book calls for a spec tool to remove the centrifugal clutch, but i use a ball peen hammer..lol ), once you get to the change clutch, get the staked nut off, remove the 4 bolts from the center springs, then pull the basket out, check all the spacer disk, and friction disk to make sure they all stack tight to one another ?, center in, springs, plate, 4 bolts, tighten them down good, DO NOT OVER TIGHTEN  THEM, THEY WILL BREAK OFF !. slide the clutch basket back on the shaft, make sure you got all parts back in that came out ?. put the nut back on the basket, install the bearing, install the lifter plate, dab some grease on the 3-ball piece that has the spring attached, tilt the atv on its left side, 45 degree's, lay the 3-ball piece with spring down into the lifter plate, notch faces down,rest on the clutch arm wheel.

 

Now install the centrifugal clutch, remember..NUT IS LEFT HAND THREADS !!. don't forget to install the oil splash back onto the oil pump before you install the clutch !!. double check to make sure all washers and parts are where they should be ??, like the oil pick up screen ??..lol. install gasket, carefully install the side cover, it should slide back down onto the engine, IF FOR SOME REASON THE COVER DOES NOT DROP BACK DOWN TO THE CASE ?,,THEN DON'T FORCE IT !!!..there is something keeping it from going back down ?. if you must pull the cover back off ?, PULL THE GASKET BACK OFF, OR YOU RISK RIPPING IT !. also hold onto the kick starter shaft..you DO NOT WANT THE KICK STARTER SHAFT TO COME OUT !!..LOL. I think i typed enough, you have my number, get stumped ?..call me !.

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
33 minutes ago, bcsman said:

 

I smell a gas donation coming again.....lol

why you little old fart !!..grrrr...lol.

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

thanks shadetree but i am way ahead of you. f.f. with his picture page is a magic trick from h... ! just got the four wheller put away all back together shifts great up and down. shop tools put away oil dry is down my hands are clean and im ready to eat supper and take a nap. THANKS FISHFILES and to this forum. problem fixed. you were spot on !!!

  • Like 3
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
15 minutes ago, flatcroaker said:

thanks shadetree but i am way ahead of you. f.f. with his picture page is a magic trick from h... ! just got the four wheller put away all back together shifts great up and down. shop tools put away oil dry is down my hands are clean and im ready to eat supper and take a nap. THANKS FISHFILES and to this forum. problem fixed. you were spot on !!!

good deal, ty 4 the update !.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
5 hours ago, flatcroaker said:

thanks shadetree but i am way ahead of you. f.f. with his picture page is a magic trick from h... ! just got the four wheller put away all back together shifts great up and down. shop tools put away oil dry is down my hands are clean and im ready to eat supper and take a nap. THANKS FISHFILES and to this forum. problem fixed. you were spot on !!!

 

F.C., Great news !  Stick around a while and share your atv adventures with us farts  , LOL 

 

Shade ,  every now and then a blind hog finds a acorn and a  picture can be  worth a thousand words , LOL 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

Always good to have a Honda fixed and ready for more action, thanks for keeping us in the loop...

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
14 hours ago, Fishfiles said:

 

F.C., Great news !  Stick around a while and share your atv adventures with us farts  , LOL 

 

Shade ,  every now and then a blind hog finds a acorn and a  picture can be  worth a thousand words , LOL 

but..those pics were both mine and mels...again..you stole my credit !..rofl.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
4 minutes ago, shadetree said:

but..those pics were both mine and mels...again..you stole my credit !..rofl.

Once a pic is posted onto the forum , I would say it is the property of the forum ----- pic was for quick reference >  knowing when , where and why to post that pic is the key to success , LOL  

  • Like 3
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
 

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...