freebo86

On 7/18/2021 at 7:14 AM, Melatv said:

Hi; Did you remove the old tapper bearing cone?

 

What do you mean?

I had pulled the bearings out to clean them off. This is the only photo I have of them reinstalled when I greased it all. 
 

12 hours ago, shadetree said:

i still would like to know if the right side has been double stacked with swing arm bearings ?!..lol.

mine are the tapered style bearings 

Can someone measure me what the distance is front left side of frame to ride side of frame (inside dimensions of where the swing arm pivots). Let’s see if the frame is spreading. 
 

I guess your looking at the old photo. After I took it apart and I did another go at it. Like I said, the more I thread the pivot in the more of a gap. So i took it out, and used fingers to go hand tight then my 3/8a torque wrench to get to to 7ft lbs. 

this is how it sits now with 3/16s

left side

17 hours ago, Fishfiles said:

You would think Honda's quality control  would take warpage  into consideration ---- I think it is more a weak point issue , maybe some atvs get ridden by fat guys or riding double up , some riding hard going air borne , who knows , seen 3 450 pics  today , Shade's and two of mine and they are all tight , no gap and then Freebo's   got a 1/2 inch + gap 

Nah, the gap is like 3/16”. 

8 hours ago, shadetree said:

make sure the end of the bolt is going into the swing arm bearing ?!., if its not ?, it will push the frame out.

This makes sense, but no way would I be able to thread the pivot bolt in by head easily and get it to spread the frame.. I get it in there hand tight with my fingers before I apply the 7ft lbs 

12 hours ago, toodeep said:

Sounds like the frame is getting a little weak, there isn't a lot of bracing in that area on the 450.  You could weld a cross brace or strap in (close as possible to the pivot bolt area) once you get everything where it should be to beef it up. It might go years the way it is but eventually the frame will probably start to crack out from stress. 

Ohhh… well It’s the swingarm that slides over and takes up the gap if I loosen the pivot bolt. The frame don’t appear to be moving. 
 

stopped by the dealer even some of their used machine outside look like this and I spoke with a mechanic who said it’s normal.. 

it’s going to stay this way. I checked the swingarm no side play at all so it’s staying. I marked the hex bolt prior to torquing the lock nut to make sure it didn’t move, and it didn’t. 
 

So I checked the side again. Basically no cracks or anything is noticed.

Now, as I unthread that pivot bolt the gap becomes smaller as the swing arm is pulled in towards frame. So what’s going on is as I tighten it the pivot bolt is pushing the swing arm to the left and creating the large gap.. 

Pivot is aligned with bearing and the correct pivot for the right side. 

1 minute ago, toodeep said:

That gap can be normal on some machines. If you tightened the left side first and then the right I wouldn't worry about it much. Ride it some and double check the torque but it's more than likely good. This is a 400/450 Foreman? If so check the frame for any crack marks as that's pretty common (in my area) and can cause the frame to spread more than normal.

yes its a 04-450.

Where are the potential crack marks?

3 hours ago, Fishfiles said:

There was a 70s song comes to mind for this situation , "If it don't fit , don't force it , just relax and let it flow " ----

 

Maybe the shoulder of the pivot bolt is hanging up on the I.D. of the bearing , did you try and to slide the pivot bolt into the bearing with out the swing arm 

No I did not try sliding it into the bearing without swingarm.

I'll undo that side tonight and check if its aligned properly and check again. I did cycle the swingarm up and down, bike is on its tired again and all moves freely.  I'll stop by the local Honda dealer today and look at a few of their machines that are outside.

From reading online it seems that this gap is normal and quite common..

15 minutes ago, Fishfiles said:

 

Ok , so you did clean the threads out both side . 

But did you actually screw the pivot bolts into the frame all the way in  without the swing arm to verify they screwed easily in ??  

 

I might also check the fit of the pivot bolt into the bearing , maybe there a nick or dent not allowing it to go into the bearing , maybe it was a misalignment problem when you were installed the swing arm  

Actually, I cleaned the threads to the point I was able to fully thread in the pivot bolts by hand all the way through the hole before I installed the swingarm back on - that’s how clean the threads were. 
 

I think it’s aligned, because again, I was able to start threading that pivot bolt in with ease even with the swingarm in place so it was all aligned. 

I did clean the threads out on both side. 
 

I’ll undo this bolt and check the threads again. I can keep deff tightening it.. but it’s the low torque value that’s just making me stop…

Got it on! The tube was clean once I took it apart. 
 

Swingarm is mounted. Is the gap on the right side normal? I never checked when I pulled this off.

both pivots are to spec on torque. Left is 83ft. Right I did to 7ft lbs. then I put the lock nut on and went to 83ft lbs for it. I took a old socket and cut grooves into it for the lock nut. 

I don’t think we’re understanding each other hear/ what ujoint are we referring to? The one by the output shaft? If so, that’s not the issue. 
 

My problem is the rear driveshaft at the rear diff end. I think the rear shaft pulled OUT OF the diff. 

I can make the front portion mate up.. 

On 7/14/2021 at 2:55 PM, shadetree said:

yep, push it up into the swing arm, u-joint first, will take some twisting to get the u-joint to go back onto the output shaft, once that is done, make sure the tension spring is in the back end of the drive shaft ?, large o-ring in the diff grove where it bolts up, press the diff onto the drive shaft as far as you can, quickly put a nut on the studs to hold it, make sure the large o-ring does not fall out of the groove ?, then do all 4 nuts on the studs, thats all there is too it.

well to do this I’d have to separate the diff off the swing arm.. no way to do this with it all still as one assembly.

So basically just push the driveshaft into the swing arm tube and I should get it to seat down into the rear diff? 

5 hours ago, Goober said:

Backfire could be too lean on AF mix; try opening your pilot 1/8 turn and see it condition improves 

I've had it back as far as 2.5 turns and the bike seems to run not as well, throttle response isn't quite there..

Picked up oil today, now that the machine has 15 or so hours since the engine was re-done and the intial break in is over. this will be the 3rd chance.

1 minute ago, jeepwm69 said:

 It should have a spring on it where it goes down onto the diff. Just push it in there. It will go

Yes there is a spring back there I see it in the tube. Is it supposed to click into place or what?

Got it loose. Pulled.

cleaned threads, checked bearings they were smooth once I cleaned them off. Applied marine grease to them and cleaned the swing arm cavity they sit in and pushed them back in.

replaced the output shaft seal - easy. The issue I ran into is the rear shaft that is inside the swing arm pulled itself out of the diff and is inside the swing arm tube now.. is this normal? 

Do I now need to separate the swing arm from the rear diff to get the rear shaft back seated?

The instructions don’t into great detail on getting the back driveshaft in do I just push it until it snaps into something or what?

Just now, shadetree said:

just unscrew the 17mm allen bolts, don't worry about the lock nuts right now !.

Go on? Serious?

8 hours ago, jeepwm69 said:

 

Well the good news is, with all of that apart you know the stuff is good, whether it was good before, or needs to be replaced.

 

If your swingarm bearings are ok, grease them while you have it apart. 

 

I wouldn't worry too much about getting everything in the rear end completely spotless.  Part of me thinks having a swingarm full of oil could be a good thing LOL.

 

Unbolt rear shocks from the rear axle, pull vent lines and rear brake cables, take accordion boot off, and undo those two 17MM hex bolts holding the swingarm in, and the whole thing should slide out. 

 

Then take that little circlip out holding the rear output seal in place, and get the old seal out (I usually thread a drywall screw into the seal, and then pull on the drywall screw), tap new seal in, reassemble in reverse order.

 

 

so does the lock nut have to come off? I keep reading people just undoing the 17mm hex and that’s it?

Because I got most of it off but I’m at the lock but now. Left side is just the 17mm hex.. havent tried pulling that off. 
 

But that lock but is not coming off with just hitting it with a hammer and chisel.. I’m worried going further if actually ruining the lock but and then being SOL. 

9 hours ago, Fishfiles said:

You never know how you look till you had your picture took ------  and many  part places give free shipping once you hit that certain purchase amount , I know how you are , you order parts quick 

I actually hate to spend money! 

5 hours ago, Fishfiles said:

I don't know , worst case senerio , Swing arm bearings , seals and dust plates ,  maybe the u-jolt could be bad either from the splines worn out or u-joint wobbling or there is  a seal  groove cut  cut in the shaft  ----

 

now that I think  about it , that swing arm is likely full of oil , so maybe it would be best to take the rear end off the swing arm and clean it out and maybe check out and change the pinion seal if the tube was full of oil ---

 

you don't really need the foot pound torque wrench , cause you only have to lock the jam nut down , but I do think the inch pound wrench is important to not over tighten the swing arm bearing adjustment , it is only like 48 inch pounds of torque ( 4 ft pound ) 

Oyyy Oyyyy potentially more parts to replace..

Why you saying don’t order anything till it’s apart? What else is there to replace that may be required? 

Nevermind, got my answer. Guess not. Apparently the rear output shaft is the culprit. 
 

so what special tools are needed to pull that swing arm off? And what is the quickest and easiest way to pull it? Remove the wheels, remove rear brake cables, lower shock bolts then undo the swing arm and pull it back?

I tried looking on partzilla but can’t figure out what the seal actually is. Is it #6 under Final Gear Drive?

My curiosity got the best of me, I loosened the clamp on the accordion style rubber boot that’s towards the rear near the oil dip stick, and that runs back to the axle. 
 

Should there be oil in this accordion? And what actually is in there? I loosened the clamp and oil just oozed out..