450es top end rebuild

[JRB 22]

Hay All, hondabond on cylinder base gasket ?  yes or no. 

[Orvis25 108]

5 hours ago, JRB said:

Hay All, hondabond on cylinder base gasket ?  yes or no. 

No, Hondabond was not made for that type of environment/purpose. 

Go with a raw (un-honda bonded) OEM or aftermarket gasket. 

Only use hondabond to replace places that where priorly Honda-bonded by the factory (like the rocker boxes) or when clamping differential shells. 

Edited August 29, 2021 by Orvis25

[JRB 22]

Thanks Orvis, Yes crankcase to cylinder. T

he manual for dummies said to. reason i ask is because on disassembly, it looks like some kind of sealant around the stud bolts?

 

[Orvis25 108]

3 minutes ago, JRB said:

Thanks Orvis, Yes crankcase to cylinder. T

he manual for dummies said to. reason i ask is because on disassembly, it looks like some kind of sealant around the stud bolts?

 

I have never read a repair manual for a 450, but I know that under normal circumstances, Hondabond+gasket is not recommended since you don't want it seeping into your cylinder where the piston rides. 
The flat gasket should be all that is needed to seal it. 

Maybe the PO put it on if/when they worked on it, but on my 300, there is no liquid gasket material that assists with sealing the cylinder head/base, or my crank cases, other than the OEM flat gasket. 

Maybe let someone who broke down a 450 before give you some more clarification ( @bcsman ), but I would advise most likely not. 

[_Wilson_™ 6,593]

8 hours ago, JRB said:

Hay All, hondabond on cylinder base gasket ?  yes or no. 

 

i read up on your other thread..... was the base weeping oil (over time) before your started taking the egine apart ? 

 

https://atvhonda.com/topic/1544-98-450es-timing/?tab=comments#comment-48000

 

Edited August 29, 2021 by _Wilson_™

[_Wilson_™ 6,593]

you will hear many deferent opinions.... 

 

https://www.hondaatvforums.net/threads/1995-trx300fw-top-end-gasket-question-for-mudding.98466/

[JRB 22]

Thanks Wilson. Sorry for the late reply.  

[Fishfiles 20,147]

I know the cylinder base gasket can be the hardest gasket to scrap off  , if you send your jug into G+H for a bore job with that base gasket still stuck on , they will charge you $20 to get it off , must be something  on them 

[JRB 22]

Yes it was hard to get the crankcase clean. Going with a new cylinder.  Thanks

[_Wilson_™ 6,593]

7 hours ago, JRB said:

Thanks Wilson. Sorry for the late reply.  

 

no problem... just curios as to if it was weeping oil at the jug base before you ever broke it down. 

[JRB 22]

no Wilson, not at all. that looks terrible. only spot of some oil residue was at the failed cam chain tensioner. otherwise clean as far as oil. I think i'm going to use a very thin line of hondabond on the crankcase/ cylinder gasket.  Thanks. 

Edited August 31, 2021 by JRB

[_Wilson_™ 6,593]

i don't see that it would hurt using a very small amount.... I've seen people use gobs of that rtv sealant, when just only a very small amount is needed, most times it's because the surfaces haven't been cleaned well enough. but i would not use rtv on a honda period! some of the post here... show the damage from using but there are people that use it, and have no issues at all..... just depends on how it's aplyed..... for instance .... i had a truck small diesel toyota i purchased used, and it had a new thermostat installed, the PO had used rtv sealant..... with this engine... the thermostat has a jiggle valve to alow the coolant to reach the upper level of the housing, but the engine would get overly warm, then the temp would drop all the sudden.... so i checked, and sure enough the jiggle valve was plugged by rtv sealant, and wouldn't allow the coolant to reach the upper side of the thermostat, once i cleaned it out it worked fine from then on. 

[JRB 22]

Yes Wilson, I agree. I have seen silicon overboard. last thing I want to do is interduce something into the oil system. keep it clean - keep it simple. This rebuild has taken alot of down time. I'm not interested of a redo. lol  Thanks for your input. You guy's are great! right now I'm waiting on new dowel pins for the cylinder, as I screwed the old ones up trying to remove them. Ya that's me, lol

[_Wilson_™ 6,593]

sure glad to help.... be sure to keep us updated. oh that pic was one i snagged online... lol.... someone did post soaking the gasket in clean motor oil... that might work, i couldn't rightly say... but i do find that very interesting.  

[JRB 22]

Wilson, I used some we gasket remover to clean the crankcase. I had to apply it a couple of time and gentle scrap it off with a razor blade. At a 90 degree angle, not to cut the aluminum.  

[_Wilson_™ 6,593]

good deal! we used a very sharpened puddy knife at the shop... but many times I'd use a razor in the same fashion...

Edited September 1, 2021 by _Wilson_™

[Fishfiles 20,147]

4 hours ago, _Wilson_™ said:

good deal! we used a very sharpened puddy knife at the shop... but many times I'd use a razor in the same fashion...

 

 

I'm confused ---  Wilson where did you get any experience working on atvs , I have know you a long time now and never seen or heard of any repairs you ever done on any atvs , on  the old site we hung out at or this one for matter of fact 

[_Wilson_™ 6,593]

at LJ cycle shop. just up the road from me Johnny wilson cycles  remember my 1st handle jay10.... and the reason i took that as my handle ? out of respect for him when he passed on... and wilson then because of what i learned at his shop.... also where i purchased my 2000 300..... but this doesn't really have to do with topic at hand does it ? 

Edited September 1, 2021 by _Wilson_™

[Fishfiles 20,147]

16 hours ago, _Wilson_™ said:

at LJ cycle shop. just up the road from me Johnny wilson cycles  remember my 1st handle jay10.... and the reason i took that as my handle ? out of respect for him when he passed on... and wilson then because of what i learned at his shop.... also where i purchased my 2000 300..... but this doesn't really have to do with topic at hand does it ? 

Sure it does have a lot to do with the topic at hand , cause as long as I known you , which is about 11 years years , I don't remember you ever  working  on atvs at all , all you done was repeat what others who worked on them said , then get mad when they don't do it the way you think it should be done 

[_Wilson_™ 6,593]

like i said on page 85 of the weather thread 

 

Quote

On August 27, 2021 at 3:46 PM, _Wilson_™ said:

 

my honest opinion is this is not the right place (open forums) for abusive talk... positive yes.... so i will not be a part of it.

 

 

 I'm here to stay :-) and this along with all the other post will not produce a rise out of me at all....

Edited September 2, 2021 by _Wilson_™

[Fishfiles 20,147]

 It is being positive , cause I am warning everyone that you are not to be trusted , as long as I have known you ,  your jig has always been to stir trouble amongst people and the forum with spreading of Private Messages , you have taken that to a new high  ----  just so members can beware of  WilsonAKA , Jay and Jay10 

[jeepwm69 7,751]

1 hour ago, Fishfiles said:

 It is being positive , cause I am warning everyone that you are not to be trusted , as long as I have known you ,  your jig has always been to stir trouble amongst people and the forum with spreading of Private Messages , you have taken that to a new high  ----  just so members can beware of  WilsonAKA , Jay and Jay10 

 

Ease up Fish.  All of us have had our moments where we've gone a little feral here or on the old board.

 

Wilson, to my knowledge, has walked a straight line for quite a while now.   Probably more-so than quite a few of us (myself included) when we got into the great battle of "politics or no politics"

[_Wilson_™ 6,593]

On September 1, 2021 at 6:03 AM, JRB said:

Wilson, I used some we gasket remover to clean the crankcase. I had to apply it a couple of time and gentle scrap it off with a razor blade. At a 90 degree angle, not to cut the aluminum.  

 

90% ? I've never tried at that angle before, you bring a valid point (not to cut the aluminum) we did see some that had been etched / cut into into from previous builds. with a razor.... i use a very slim angle about 8-10 degree slant. 

[shadetree 5,977]

i always use a razor utility knife blade, and what that does not remove ?, my bench grinder with a wire wheel takes the rest off. for future reference ?, never force those dowel pin guides out !. use some heat first, then some wiggle. if they wont budge ?, then leave them alone, and scrape around them. 

[shadetree 5,977]

oh, AND NEVER USE RTV SEALANT FOR A BASE GASKET !. they call for oem or fiber gaskets..ALWAYS !.