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Destructo

Should there be oil in here or not?

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i have 2 identical ATV's, 2003 and 2004 trx500's

 

on the 2003 if i undo the bolt in the picture ( for flywheel timing for TDC) its filled with oil and if removed while running itll spray out.

on the 2004 under same circumstances there is no oil.

 

which one is messed up?

should there be oil in this chamber or not?

engine.jpg

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I would guess that 500 is a Hondamatic , I don't know alot about them , but would guess your oil level is off on one or the other , both the 2003 and 2004 use the same dip stick 

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yes its a hondacrapmatic... they are the same vehicle just different year, well and one has a gps but thats negligible..

the one with the oil in the flywheel area- is very difficult to check the oil level.  if i pull the dipstick while its running it will blob oil out at a high rate, if i let it cool off and check the oil its like its full beyond the top of the dipstick... i can never get a good reading on that one. however i only put 5 of the 5.3 liters in it ( freshly did the top end and fresh oil).

i dont have a tachometer, but when i check oil pressure at idle its something like 22 psi and when i blast the throttle the oil pressure gets up there and beyond the spec in the book ( i dont know the rpm but when i "brap" it the pressure goes way up.) Ive not gotten this one to fully filled oil level yet because it seems like its more than full, when i know for certain it is in fact not.   when i pull the valve ports, they have oil dripping on them just as the other bike does so i know the oil system to the head works fine.

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@Brian Bertram is the Hondamatic expert.  Something definitely seems off.

 

The one puffing oil out of the timing cap might simply have more blowby and thus crankcase pressure 

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The one with oil in the chamber with the timing cap is the 2003 with a fresh cylinder, new valves lapped and new gaskets... I think there is something wrong with the cam decompressed as on the compression strike with the recoil starter it's so hard I keep breaking ropes, hence the hanging one in temporarily lol I haven't checked compression cuz I'm going on vacation tomorrow for 2 weeks but when I return I'll have more info on that but it seems like mega compression compared to when I got it before he work we did.

 

If I recall correctly that is simply the flywheel a crankshaft bearing and stator right in that chamber right? Wouldn't think there would be a reason for it to have oil in it I think.

 

It had the same oil issues prior to me doing he handwork as far as oil check and pressure goes

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7 hours ago, Fishfiles said:

@RubiDan what you know about oil levels in these Rubicons

 

Mine has a DCT transmission and probably doesn't have anything in common with Destructo's transmission.  I just fill mine to the full mark on the stick and haven't ever had the stick out while running.  I wish I could help but don't know anything about a Hondamatic.  My only experience is on four-stroke and two-stroke air cooled dirt bike engines with clutches.

 

Could the oil pump be out of whack.  I know of a truck engine that burst the oil filter because of too much oil pump pressure.

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Extra pressure would be weird and I have a new hn2 model pump for it.  More just wanting to know if there is supposed to be oil in the chamber that the arrow points to or not.

 

Gotta find out which bike gets its motor ripped out and which bike gets ripped on till it explodes THEN gets its motor ripped out lol

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5 hours ago, Destructo said:

Extra pressure would be weird and I have a new hn2 model pump for it.  More just wanting to know if there is supposed to be oil in the chamber that the arrow points to or not.

 

Gotta find out which bike gets its motor ripped out and which bike gets ripped on till it explodes THEN gets its motor ripped out lol

 

Well the oil on a Rubicon has a tank on the front of the engine that holds most of the oil, but you do have oil in the bottom of the crankcase, including where that timing plug is.  The oil level isn't high enough for oil to run out of the hole, but if you have engine blowby pressure it will spit/mist oil out of that hole with the engine running.

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The oil doesn't spray out the timing hole, just if I look in the timing hole I can see it spraying into that chamber with the timing hole.

The oil level is *just* below the timing hole.

 

 

So this 2003 with the oil in the chamber with the timing hole is proper and the one that doesn't fill there it not?

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20 minutes ago, Destructo said:

The 2004 must have a plugged area in the flow of oil I presume.

Possibly.  Might be a difference oil pressure between the two engines.  Might be simply difference in compression/blow by.

 

There isn't really anything "pumping" oil back there to the flywheel.  Pretty sure it's just oil slung around by the flywheel back there. 

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Maybe the case screen is plugged up.  

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I'll have to pull the motor on the bike that doesn't have oil in there and split the case in a couple weeks and have a look I guess.

 

Unless theres a way I can get in there with he horoscope?

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There are a lot of openings in the motor so the oil can easily flow around just being oil, no pumping. There will be oil present with both of them and pretty much every other honda out there. There are a few motorcycles that run a dry stator/flywheel but most of them all run in oil. 

 

Are checking the oil correctly? After the machine has been sitting for an extended time (overnight would be best) start and let the machine idle for 2 - 3 minutes (no throttle blips), then let the machine sit for a few minutes and then rest the dipstick in the hole. On that Rubicon it should be on the top marks after the run time. First thing in the morning the oil level should only be on the bottom of the dipstick (before it gets started) but as it runs that semi dry sump motor pumps the oil where it belongs and then you can get a proper reading.

 

I will also add that that oil back there lubricates the sub transmission gears and if no oil was back there you would know.

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