2013 TRX420FPA No Spark, "-" flashing continuously on display

[toodeep 1,758]

I can rebuild 4-5 motors easily with a tube of hondabond. You only need a very thin film of it on the surface, any extra will be forced out and eventually find it's way to the oil pump.

 

Any idea on if that spacer came from the front to the rear of the motor? We need something to reference size but the final gear in the rear has a few spacers on it, if it's that big.

[winchester 10]

My cheap chinese calipers say the outside diameter is 1.380" and inside diameter is about .990". Not sure if it came from the front or rear covers, I noticed it on the bench after I got done taking both covers off. Looking at the manual it says that there should be a spacer behind the drive gear in the rear and it is about that size so I'm going to say that is where it came from, didn't see any specs for it though.

 

 

[toodeep 1,758]

That's where I was guessing it went. If it's missing it's a pretty good chance.

[winchester 10]

Still waiting on parts. Should I buy the stuff to hone the cylinder and replace the piston rings when I put this this thing back together or just send it? The engine only has like 2000 miles on it.

[retro 4,048]

Yeah new rings is a good idea. There's no point in buying a good hone unless you will use it on occasion though. For a few bucks you can have the cylinder touched up for new rings by someone who does it everyday. Valve seals are a good idea too, since you've got it apart. Don't forget to scrub the honing grit out of the bore thoroughly before you oil it and install it.

[winchester 10]

I was messing with the engine some more today and I noticed that it doesn't always like to go into every gear without spinning the shaft that the primary clutch goes onto (pic related). Is that normal? Looking from the top of the crankcase it appears that the gears inside don't always mesh up without spinning that shaft a bit. I guess if the engine was running and in gear that shaft would be spinning all the time so it wouldn't be an issue? It mostly doesn't like going from 3rd to 4th unless I kind of hold the shifter tool and spin that shaft a bit and then it goes in.

[toodeep 1,758]

That's normal to have to rotate it to line up the gears so it will shift.

[winchester 10]

I got the motor put back together today. So it's normal to have to turn the motor over to shift through all the gears with the hand tool when it's not running? I noticed there's kind of a sweet spot where I can shift up and down through all of them sometimes with the hand tool but I normally have to turn the engine over with a ratchet while trying to shift with the hand tool to get through them all.

[shadetree 5,868]

1 hour ago, winchester said:

I got the motor put back together today. So it's normal to have to turn the motor over to shift through all the gears with the hand tool when it's not running? I noticed there's kind of a sweet spot where I can shift up and down through all of them sometimes with the hand tool but I normally have to turn the engine over with a ratchet while trying to shift with the hand tool to get through them all.

when motor is not running ?, yes, normal to rock the atv in order to shift gears.

[winchester 10]

I finally got around to putting the motor put back in and got it running today. I can shift through all gears now using the emergency shifter tool, the gear indicator just displays a solid "-" that doesn't flash at all. The shift buttons don't seem to do anything. Anyone have any ideas? I think I will pull the shift motor out tonight and see if I can put power to it and get it to spin.

[toodeep 1,758]

Neutral light is still working correctly? 

[winchester 10]

23 minutes ago, toodeep said:

Neutral light is still working correctly? 

Yes the N light turns green and I can start the atv once it is in Neutral. 

[Melatv 792]

13 hours ago, winchester said:

I finally got around to putting the motor put back in and got it running today. I can shift through all gears now using the emergency shifter tool, the gear indicator just displays a solid "-" that doesn't flash at all. The shift buttons don't seem to do anything. Anyone have any ideas? I think I will pull the shift motor out tonight and see if I can put power to it and get it to spin.

Hi: Go to service manual section 6 page 6-56 check the grounds

Also go section 14 pages 43 & 44 do those checks

[winchester 10]

OK I had some time to mess with it this morning and I noticed that the "-" would disappear and the gear shift indicator would display an "N" after starting it and letting it run for a few seconds.  I didn't run it that long before since I didn't have the exhaust on it and I didn't want to ! the neighbors off. If I just turn the key on it displays a solid "-" though. I took the electric shift motor off and put 12v to it and it does turn. I shifted the atv into first with the emergency shifter tool and it will move.

 

When I try to shift it using the electric shift buttons it gives me a code 15 for the shift solenoid valve. I took the shift solenoid valve off and put 12v to it and it clicks and I think the pin inside it moves a bit. I did some googling and found pic related page about using the emergency valve but I followed the instructions and it still wouldn't shift using the shift buttons, maybe that is meant to be used along with the emergency shifter tool or if it wont even move in gear? I am starting to think the problem is going to be with the oil pump or maybe one of the oil passages clogged up, or the shift solenoid valve not working correctly. I will run through melatvs suggestions and check all the wiring and electronics again when I get a chance.

 

 

 

Edited March 14, 2020 by winchester

[winchester 10]

Was messing with it a bit more today and ran through the electrical tests melatv posted. I think the 33 pin grey connector wasn't making a good contact, I cleaned it out and plugged it back in and it seems to have taken care of the solid "-" problem. 

 

Now the gearshift indicator seems to display "N" correctly when it is in neutral. If I shift it through the gears using the emergency shifter tool it displays a code 23 most of the time, I think that is for the shift angle sensor. I left the electric shift motor connected to the wiring harness but took it off the engine to see if it would spin when I tried to shift it and it doesn't move. If I press the shift buttons while the gearshift indicator is displaying "N" then I can hear like a faint beep noise and then I get a code 15 on the gearshift indicator. If I press the buttons after it starts blinking the code 15 then nothing happens. I checked the continuity of the wires going from the electric shift motor to the pcm as per the factory service manual and it all checked out fine.

 

Might mess with it some more tonight, if I do I will update the thread if I figure anything else out.

Edited March 15, 2020 by winchester

[winchester 10]

I noticed when I put 12v to the shift motor that it vibrates as it turns does anyone know if that's normal? I read that it only gets around 6v when it's on the bike so I'm gonna try to find a 6v battery to put to it and see if it still turns

[winchester 10]

The code 23 when using the emergency shift tool turned out to be normal according to the fsm.

 

The solid "-" problem came back and also the gearshift indicator started flashing a code 24 on the gearshift indicator after messing with it a bit. I thoroughly checked the wiring and connectors between the electric shift motor and the pcm and couldn't find anything wrong. I ended up buying a new electric shift motor which still didn't fix the problem, then I saw pic related post while searching through other forums where a guy was saying the pcm and shift motor should be replaced as an assembly if the 30 amp fuse is blown. When I first received the bike and it was constantly flashing "-" someone had put a piece of metal in place of the 30 amp fuse so I assume it had or was blowing with them. I ended up getting another used pcm which fixed the problem. I will make sure not to use the new pcm with the original shift motor in the future.

 

Now I am back to just getting the code 15 when I press the shift buttons. I checked out the shift solenoid wiring continuity and connectors and it seems fine. I checked the resistance and it is within specs of the fsm. I took off the shift solenoid and blew through it while I jumped it to a 12 volt battery. When it gets 12 volts I cant blow through it and when I unhook the battery I can so I think it is working correctly. I won't be leaving the house in the next couple weeks due to the coronavirus so I am planning to take the valve body off when the rain stops and see if there is any trash in it.

[jeepwm69 7,608]

Wonder whatever happened to Rurouni?  He was pretty good at troubleshooting the 420FA's.  He helped me out quite a bit on the wife's.

[winchester 10]

I took the valve body assembly off and soaked it in my ultrasonic cleaner and cleaned it out but I'm still getting the code 15. It looks like I'm only getting around 1.5 volts at the yellow/black wire at the shift solenoid when I attempt to shift and then it goes down to 1.1 volts. From what I've read online it is supposed to be getting around 5v-6v I think. Anyone know what could be causing that? It has thrown that code with 2 different pcms so I don't think that is the problem. I ran through all the checks in the fsm but there's no instructions on what to do if the voltage is low.

[Melatv 792]

Hi: You should have 1`2 VDC on the Y/Bl & G wire of the solenoid when you push the up button 

Check this -- key off unplug the Black & Gray connectors -- Key on check for 12 VDC on the Bl/R wire on the Gray connector -- check for 12 VDC on the Bl/W wire on the black connector.

[winchester 10]

8 hours ago, Melatv said:

Hi: You should have 1`2 VDC on the Y/Bl & G wire of the solenoid when you push the up button 

Check this -- key off unplug the Black & Gray connectors -- Key on check for 12 VDC on the Bl/R wire on the Gray connector -- check for 12 VDC on the Bl/W wire on the black connector.

 

I am getting 12v on both of those when I turn the key on.

[Melatv 792]

Hi: When you are checking for 12 VDC on the Y/Bl wire of the solenoid -- put the black meter lead on the neg. of the battery

[winchester 10]

5 minutes ago, Melatv said:

Hi: When you are checking for 12 VDC on the Y/Bl wire of the solenoid -- put the black meter lead on the neg. of the battery

 

That's where I put it the first time, I'll try again and make sure it reads the same. I checked the voltage at the solenoid as well as right at the pcm as well and they both read like 1.1v-1.5v dc

[winchester 10]

16 minutes ago, Melatv said:

Hi: When you are checking for 12 VDC on the Y/Bl wire of the solenoid -- put the black meter lead on the neg. of the battery

 

I checked it again and when I press the shift button it spikes to around 1.65VDC then it goes down to a constant 1.1VDC. I hooked my jumper cables from my truck to the battery as well to make sure it wasn't undercharged or something and got the same readings.

 

I don't know if it's related but the shift motor doesn't attempt to turn when I press the buttons either. I unbolted it from the engine so I could see if it tried to turn. When I press the shift buttons without the engine running sometimes I can hear a faint whine/beep coming from it.

[Melatv 792]

You may already done this -- but if not key off check the continuity of the Up/Dn switch on the Black connector of PCM  -- W/R is common -- W/Bu is up & W/Y is down

 

Also with the Key on check for 12 VDC on the Bu/O wire on the Black connector of the PCM when the drive switch is in AT

 

That beep you hear is the Idle Air control valve

Edited March 27, 2020 by Melatv