2001 rancher refresh

[jeepwm69 7,609]

15 minutes ago, bigcountry78 said:

Well, I’ve heated this thing up, beat on it, soaked it in pb blaster, and it’s not budging. At all. I can still move the cam with a screwdriver so it’s not touching the brake pads, it’s just stuck. Any more ideas before I just set the whole thing on fire?

 

You can unbolt the backing plate from the axle tube, pull the axle, backing plate, and drum out, and then try to press the axle out of the drum with a press (if you have one).

 

Once you get to that point stuff tends to start breaking though, especially the backing plate, which is pretty prone to crack/ break.

[bigcountry78 93]

1 minute ago, jeepwm69 said:

 

You can unbolt the backing plate from the axle tube, pull the axle, backing plate, and drum out, and then try to press the axle out of the drum with a press (if you have one).

 

Once you get to that point stuff tends to start breaking though, especially the backing plate, which is pretty prone to crack/ break.

I wondered if I could unbolt the backing plate and go that route. Wonder if I could leave the backing plate and just slide the axle out? Would that bring the brake drum off with the axle and leave the backing plate and brake pads in place? To remove the axle, I would take the other tire and hub off, then slide it through, correct?

[bigcountry78 93]

I had to walk away for a while. This thing is getting to me. The cotter pin came out in pieces of course, and then I couldn’t budge the nut even with my biggest ratchet. I had to resort to my 1/2” impact, and that finally broke it loose. And now, wouldn’t you know the axle shaft won’t move. I’m over it.

[jeepwm69 7,609]

Unbolt the brake backing plate.  I'd unbolt the left hub, remove the left axle tube just to check everything out there.

 

Then you should be able to push the axle from the left side, through the diff and out the right axle tube, with the backing plate/drum/axle all coming out together from the right side.

[shadetree 5,868]

3 hours ago, bigcountry78 said:

Well, I’ve heated this thing up, beat on it, soaked it in pb blaster, and it’s not budging. At all. I can still move the cam with a screwdriver so it’s not touching the brake pads, it’s just stuck. Any more ideas before I just set the whole thing on fire?

yep, but you are not going to like it..lol. pull the whole drum and axle out of the rear diff, then use a press to press the axle out of the drum. BEFORE YOU DO THIS ! : BE SURE THE BRAKE SHOES ARE NOT HOLDING THE DRUM ON ?!. just because you can move the brake cam, does not mean the brake shoes are stopping the drum from coming off ?!. the inside of the brake drum has a metal stopper ring on the edge, it had hang up on the brake shoes once its close to the edge of the brake shoes.

[bigcountry78 93]

I was hoping that by leaving the backing plate bolted in place that the shaft would slide through and out with the drum in place. Next I’ll unbolt the backing plate and see if it’ll move then. Then maybe I can slide the backing plate off to the left and get in there to get the drum off. I’m trying really hard to not break the backing plate. 

[shadetree 5,868]

Just now, bigcountry78 said:

I was hoping that by leaving the backing plate bolted in place that the shaft would slide through and out with the drum in place. Next I’ll unbolt the backing plate and see if it’ll move then. Then maybe I can slide the backing plate off to the left and get in there to get the drum off. I’m trying really hard to not break the backing plate. 

you cannot slide the axle out of the backing plate, there is a bearing on the inside of the backing plate for one, and for two, the axle has a raised part on it keeping it from coming all the way out through the backing plate. the axle HAS to go inwards in order to get the brakes backing plate off.

[jeepwm69 7,609]

1 minute ago, bigcountry78 said:

I was hoping that by leaving the backing plate bolted in place that the shaft would slide through and out with the drum in place. Next I’ll unbolt the backing plate and see if it’ll move then. Then maybe I can slide the backing plate off to the left and get in there to get the drum off. I’m trying really hard to not break the backing plate. 

 

There's a flange on the axle that won't allow the axle shaft to push through the backing plate.   With the backing plate unbolted it will all come out together, axle, backing plate, and drum.

[shadetree 5,868]

1 minute ago, jeepwm69 said:

 

There's a flange on the axle that won't allow the axle shaft to push through the backing plate.   With the backing plate unbolted it will all come out together, axle, backing plate, and drum.

haha...was just fixing to post a pic of the axle, and explain it to him why it wont come out..lol.

[bigcountry78 93]

Well crap, that’s just my luck. Thanks guys, that’s why ya’ll are awesome, the knowledge here is amazing. I guess I’ll try again tomorrow. Like I’ve said earlier, I’m confused about why this thing is being so difficult. It all came apart so easily earlier this year.

[shadetree 5,868]

21 minutes ago, bigcountry78 said:

Well crap, that’s just my luck. Thanks guys, that’s why ya’ll are awesome, the knowledge here is amazing. I guess I’ll try again tomorrow. Like I’ve said earlier, I’m confused about why this thing is being so difficult. It all came apart so easily earlier this year.

if that large retainer clip is hanging up on the edge of the brake shoes ?, this is why it won't come off. just remove the left rear axle nut and wheel. unbolt the brakes backing plate, slide the whole axle and brake, backing plate all off in one piece. then you can hammer the axle out of the brake drum. once this is done, then you can get an idea as to why the drum wont come off ?. chances are..the drum is hanging up on the large spring clip like i said.

[bigcountry78 93]

36 minutes ago, shadetree said:

yep, but you are not going to like it..lol. pull the whole drum and axle out of the rear diff, then use a press to press the axle out of the drum. BEFORE YOU DO THIS ! : BE SURE THE BRAKE SHOES ARE NOT HOLDING THE DRUM ON ?!. just because you can move the brake cam, does not mean the brake shoes are stopping the drum from coming off ?!. the inside of the brake drum has a metal stopper ring on the edge, it had hang up on the brake shoes once its close to the edge of the brake shoes.

Do you have a sure fire way of making sure the shoes are not holding the drum on? I have no idea what way the shoes are oriented because I can’t see anything going on back there.

Edited November 29, 2023 by bigcountry78

[shadetree 5,868]

however !.. you can unbolt the backing plate, slide it off the axle all in once piece.

[bigcountry78 93]

Just now, shadetree said:

however !.. you can unbolt the backing plate, slide it off the axle all in once piece.

Well now there’s another thing to try. Might try that next, and then remove the entire axle as a last resort. Brakes shouldn’t be this hard to fix.

[shadetree 5,868]

5 minutes ago, bigcountry78 said:

Do you have a sure fire way of making sure the shoes are not holding the drum on? I have no idea what way the shoes are oriented because I can see anything going on back there.

the way i do it: i center the brake cam , by doing this..i mean working the brake cam back and forth while i turn the drum, you can feel when the shoes are rubbing the drum on the inside. try to get the brake shoes centered in this process, when you get them centered, you will know this when the drum spins real easy, from here on out..its just a matter of prying the drum off...if the spring is catching on the shoes ?, you will have to hammer and carefully pry the drum off, over the spring clip.

[shadetree 5,868]

2 minutes ago, bigcountry78 said:

Well now there’s another thing to try. Might try that next, and then remove the entire axle as a last resort. Brakes shouldn’t be this hard to fix.

yeah, just unbolt the backing plate..slide it off the axle..it should all come off in one piece, then you will just have the drum stuck on the backing plate, with the shoes holding it on the drum.

[shadetree 5,868]

#3 in this fich --> Honda ATV 2001 OEM Parts Diagram for Rear Brake / Panel | Partzilla.com , is what catches on the edge of the brake shoes. this takes place when the metal on the drum wears down below the shoes edge, this keeps the drum from slidding off.

[bigcountry78 93]

Well, here we are. Removed the shaft and the axle tube, figured why not. Anyway it doesn’t look too bad to be as old as it is. It wasn’t full of mud and water, and the splines on the axle shaft doesn’t show any wear that I can see. I’m happy about that, since it had 26’s on it when I bought it. Anyway, stupid drum is still stuck but at least now maybe I can see what’s going on.

[bigcountry78 93]

Success fellas, success!! Many thanks to the good people here that gave advice. I managed to get everything apart without breaking anything. And I think I found the problem. So, what can I put everything back together with to make sure it works as well and as long as possible? Axle grease? Antiseize? Something else that’ll slick everything up? I’ve hit all the pivot points with a wire brush and I’m going to get some sand paper and carb cleaner to make sure everything is as smooth as it can be before it goes back together.

[shadetree 5,868]

15 minutes ago, bigcountry78 said:

Success fellas, success!! Many thanks to the good people here that gave advice. I managed to get everything apart without breaking anything. And I think I found the problem. So, what can I put everything back together with to make sure it works as well and as long as possible? Axle grease? Antiseize? Something else that’ll slick everything up? I’ve hit all the pivot points with a wire brush and I’m going to get some sand paper and carb cleaner to make sure everything is as smooth as it can be before it goes back together.

what did you discover keeping the brake drum from coming off ?. a bench grinder with a wire wheel is what i clean up alot of brake parts with. as for the inside of the brake drum, i use my dremel with a grinding stone to knock off the rust/build up. if you do not have a dremel ?, just use some 220 grit sand paper, but this will take a few min's to get down to bare metal..lol.

[shadetree 5,868]

1 hour ago, bigcountry78 said:

Well, here we are. Removed the shaft and the axle tube, figured why not. Anyway it doesn’t look too bad to be as old as it is. It wasn’t full of mud and water, and the splines on the axle shaft doesn’t show any wear that I can see. I’m happy about that, since it had 26’s on it when I bought it. Anyway, stupid drum is still stuck but at least now maybe I can see what’s going on.

do not lose or forget to put the bearing race keeper back on the left rear side !. this is a very important piece to keep the hub and wheel on !..lol. its flat on one side, tapered on the other side. flat side faces out towards hub.

[bigcountry78 93]

39 minutes ago, shadetree said:

do not lose or forget to put the bearing race keeper back on the left rear side !. this is a very important piece to keep the hub and wheel on !..lol. its flat on one side, tapered on the other side. flat side faces out towards hub.

This piece? It’s tapered and fell out when I took the tube off. I was about to ask where it goes. As far as the drum? I have no idea what was holding it. Once I got the axle out and on the tailgate, I noticed the drum would move ever so slightly. So I picked up the axle, held it straight up and tapped the end on the tailgate and the drum slid right on down. Not sure if I got the shoes in just the right spot, or if all the pounding and oiling finally took effect.

Edited November 30, 2023 by bigcountry78

[jeepwm69 7,609]

52 minutes ago, bigcountry78 said:

This piece? It’s tapered and fell out when I took the tube off. I was about to ask where it goes. As far as the drum? I have no idea what was holding it. Once I got the axle out and on the tailgate, I noticed the drum would move ever so slightly. So I picked up the axle, held it straight up and tapped the end on the tailgate and the drum slid right on down. Not sure if I got the shoes in just the right spot, or if all the pounding and oiling finally took effect.

 

 

Yep, it's number 18 here.  When you get the axle back in, that slides onto the left end of the axle, flat side out (so the bearing in that left axle tube butts up against it.

 

https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/honda/atv/2002/trx350fe-a-fourtrax-rancher-4x4-es/final-driven-gear

[shadetree 5,868]

4 hours ago, bigcountry78 said:

This piece? It’s tapered and fell out when I took the tube off. I was about to ask where it goes. As far as the drum? I have no idea what was holding it. Once I got the axle out and on the tailgate, I noticed the drum would move ever so slightly. So I picked up the axle, held it straight up and tapped the end on the tailgate and the drum slid right on down. Not sure if I got the shoes in just the right spot, or if all the pounding and oiling finally took effect.

yep..that piece !..lol.

[bigcountry78 93]

Picked up some emery cloth and new cotter pins tonight, going to polish the cam, the backing plate pass through and the brake shoe pivot points. I’ll put some grease on everything and then put it all back together finally. Throw some grease on the axle splines for good measure.