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IndianaRecon

2002 Honda Recon Foot Shift Problem at RPM

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Hello All,

 

I am brand new here, I saw a suggestion to come to this forum from Honda ATV forum so here I am. I am here to learn, save time, and money by avoiding replacing a bunch of good parts. This is my 3rd fourwheeler and I have only owned Honda Recons. 

 

I will give a quick description of my problem, give the troubleshooting I have done, and try to explain what I think the problem is based on a YouTube video I found(shown below) then hopefully be educated on my vast lack of knowledge on the subject and gain an understanding on the problem.

 

Problem description: I can shift into first and second with little to no issue(just some minor l unging) when I am at RPM in second gear it will not let me shift into 3rd unless I slow down dramatically, and then it roughly shifts into 3rd. This is the same for 4th, and 5th. If I hold the foot shifter up from Neutral and hit the gas the fourwheeler starts moving. I tried to adjust the clutch but the adjuster screw was already turned counterclockwise as far as it could go. From what I can tell this indicates the change clutch is not disengaging. What I am hoping is that the problem is related to the adjuster and lifter cam. 

 

I am referencing Harvey Spooners video below. I think that I may have the same problem but cannot seem to find any other information about the problem he mentions in this video. 

 

 

I have ordered the following parts(attached photo) based on what I could conclude from this video, but he talks in the video like this is common knowledge, which maybe it is, its just not common to me. 

 

If this is something you guys have seen in other locations or think I can find info on just by searching forums please feel free to send me reading. I have searched for this issue elsewhere pretty extensively and have found nothing that is exactly the same. Thanks in advance!

 

 

Parts_2002_Recon.JPG

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You mentioned the clutch adjustment screw was already fully counterclockwise.  You do know from that position you need to turn back 1/8 to 1/4 turn clockwise then tighten down..... 

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@IndianaRecon, this is our Intro forum... we don't fix stuff in here. Please make a new thread in the Utility/Engines forum containing all of your info pertaining to your Recon so we can join your repair. Thanks.

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sounds like the clutch adjustment is being adjusted wrong to me.

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@bcsman when I loosened the locknut to adjust the clutch and attempted to back the adjuster out and it turned about a 1/4 turn counterclockwise before not being able to turn anymore as of it were all the way backed out. I then turned it it about an eighth hoping that would adjust it. I held the adjuster while tightening the locknut. I went through those steps based on what the manual said. @shadetreetheres no doubt I could have done it wrong so I'll go back through those steps again when I get off this evening. Do you hear anything wrong with that process?

 

@retro I had originally posted there and bcs man moved the thread here so that I would have an intro too. When I get home this evening I'll work to move everything around so everything is correct, sorry about that. 

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1 hour ago, IndianaRecon said:

@retro I had originally posted there and bcs man moved the thread here so that I would have an intro too. When I get home this evening I'll work to move everything around so everything is correct, sorry about that. 

 

No worries, this is fairly new forum software for us so I (we) am still trying to learn it. When I could not figure out how to perform a routine split I asked for your help. I see that the guys have it figured out now though, so you can disregard my plea for help. :-)

 

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11 hours ago, shadetree said:

sounds like the clutch adjustment is being adjusted wrong to me.

what sounds wrong about my adjustment?

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2 minutes ago, IndianaRecon said:

what sounds wrong about my adjustment?

very first post, you said you turned the adjuster all the way counter clockwise as far as it would go ^^^^^, then after that, you don't say ( or I missed it ? ), that you then turn the adjuster bolt clock wise about 1/4 turn, then lock the lock nut down while holding the center bolt in place ?.

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oh, I don't got by sound when adjusting my clutch ?, I go by feel and end results.

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30 minutes ago, shadetree said:

very first post, you said you turned the adjuster all the way counter clockwise as far as it would go ^^^^^, then after that, you don't say ( or I missed it ? ), that you then turn the adjuster bolt clock wise about 1/4 turn, then lock the lock nut down while holding the center bolt in place ?.

Ok, I see why you thought that, that was just me not including enough details. I was trying to describe that the adjuster was already all the way out but I didn't say that at all. In my head it made perfect sense... lol 

 

Let me try again:

 

I loosened the lock nut, then attempted to turn out the adjuster screw and it would only turn counter clockwise maybe 1/4 turn max, I then turned it back clockwise 1/8 a turn. I held the adjuster screw in place and tightened the lock nut. After that I started up and pulled the shifter up holding it there and revved the engine at this point the quad started moving forward. I attempted to drive and had the same shifting issue as before. So it seems to me that the adjuster is all the way out already. It moves freely so I don't think its bound or anything. Another note is that as I turned it counter clockwise it never got stiff to turn it just seemed to bottom out. I put moderate force on it and it felt bottomed out. 

Edited by IndianaRecon

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When turning that screw counterclockwise your putting the pressure onto the clutch and that's why you only want slight resistance. If you force it farther it will start pushing against the clutch plate disengaging it. The 1/4 turn back in is for a little free play so if you lightly rest your foot on the shifter it doesn't slip the clutch. When you shift the other plate rotates and that triangle ball piece forces them apart to disengage the clutch. 

 

After is adjusted correctly take it for a ride and in 3rd//4th gear hold up on the shifter and get on the throttle, let off and back on ..... until the clutches break loose for each other. When they are parked it common for them to bond together but usually break loose after just a little normal riding. Long periods of storage amplifies that issue. The type of oil you use can also contribute to that.

 

After the clutch is adjusted properly and clutch disks broke loose from each other you should be able to get up to speed, let off the throttle, shift smoothly and get back on the throttle.

20200219_160801.jpg

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31 minutes ago, IndianaRecon said:

Ok, I see why you thought that, that was just me not including enough details. I was trying to describe that the adjuster was already all the way out but I didn't say that at all. In my head it made perfect sense... lol 

 

Let me try again:

 

I loosened the lock nut, then attempted to turn out the adjuster screw and it would only turn counter clockwise maybe 1/4 turn max, I then turned it back clockwise 1/8 a turn. I held the adjuster screw in place and tightened the lock nut. After that I started up and pulled the shifter up holding it there and revved the engine at this point the quad started moving forward. I attempted to drive and had the same shifting issue as before. So it seems to me that the adjuster is all the way out already. It moves freely so I don't think its bound or anything. Another note is that as I turned it counter clockwise it never got stiff to turn it just seemed to bottom out. I put moderate force on it and it felt bottomed out. 

I will post a thread here in this section, it is a great write up on how I adjust my clutches on my builds. it will be a sticky later on, I I highly recommend you read it !.

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7 minutes ago, toodeep said:

When turning that screw counterclockwise your putting the pressure onto the clutch and that's why you only want slight resistance. If you force it farther it will start pushing against the clutch plate disengaging it. The 1/4 turn back in is for a little free play so if you lightly rest your foot on the shifter it doesn't slip the clutch. When you shift the other plate rotates and that triangle ball piece forces them apart to disengage the clutch. 

 

After is adjusted correctly take it for a ride and in 3rd//4th gear hold up on the shifter and get on the throttle, let off and back on ..... until the clutches break loose for each other. When they are parked it common for them to bond together but usually break loose after just a little normal riding. Long periods of storage amplifies that issue. The type of oil you use can also contribute to that.

 

After the clutch is adjusted properly and clutch disks broke loose from each other you should be able to get up to speed, let off the throttle, shift smoothly and get back on the throttle.

Ok, I will go out and try the adjustment again just to be sure I did it right the first time. For the 3rd, and 4th gears to get the clutch packs unstuck are you saying to do that at a stop? Because I cannot pull up on the shifter it is impossible to pull up at RPM currently. 

 

For oil I used Honda Pro GN4 Motor oil - 10W30. I was hoping that maybe it just had the wrong oil initially but I am certain that is not the issue. 

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4 minutes ago, shadetree said:

I will post a thread here in this section, it s great write up on how I adjust my clutches on my builds. it will be a sticky later on, I I highly recommend you read it !.

I will certainly read it. I am assuming by that recommendation I am adjusting it wrong?

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4 minutes ago, IndianaRecon said:

I will certainly read it. I am assuming by that recommendation I am adjusting it wrong?

its posb ?, we never really can say if its the operator ?, or the machine without doing it ourselves...right ?, but I just wanted to point out, it never hurts to keep going over the process !.

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2 hours ago, IndianaRecon said:

For the 3rd, and 4th gears to get the clutch packs unstuck are you saying to do that at a stop? Because I cannot pull up on the shifter it is impossible to pull up at RPM currently. 

 

Once you let off the throttle the rpm should drop enough to release most of the pressure on the drive to allow you to shift. You might have more than a simple adjustment issues but try that again just in case. 

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Ok, so last night I loosened the locknut and tried to adjust again. Same thing it would only turn about a quarter turn before it was completely tight as if adjusted all the way out. I tried driving again and going through the described process and didn't see any changes. I dont like driving it that way because I feel like I'm potentially grinding some gears.. At this point I am at a loss for what to try next

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24 minutes ago, IndianaRecon said:

Ok, so last night I loosened the locknut and tried to adjust again. Same thing it would only turn about a quarter turn before it was completely tight as if adjusted all the way out. I tried driving again and going through the described process and didn't see any changes. I dont like driving it that way because I feel like I'm potentially grinding some gears.. At this point I am at a loss for what to try next

its posb someone ?,..got it all outta whack ?, this calls for pulling front cover, and inspecting the inside at clutches. I know you did not want to hear this ?!..but..it had to be said. you can stand the atv up on its tail end, or at least high enough to get front cover off without loosing some oil ?. or just drain the oil..which is what I would do when working on engines while in the frame. if it were me ?, here is what I would do: i'd buy a new oil pump chain, new front cover gasket ( if it calls for one ? ), or just yamabond if no gasket ?. I would also buy new clutch friction disk, and maybe even a new one-way clutch bearing ? ( this is optional..but may as well seeing how your already pulling front cover..right ? ). tear it apart, and start going through it, checking everything that has to do with the clutches. AGAIN..THIS IS WHAT I WOULD DO !. please keep us updated on your progress ! :-). p.s.: MAKE SURE YOU DO NOT USE ANY KIND OF RTV SEALANT WHERE THERE IS NO GASKET ?!...ONLY USE HONDABOND OR YAMABOND !!!!!.

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When it's not running can you shift through all the gears while rocking the machine? 

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7 hours ago, toodeep said:

When it's not running can you shift through all the gears while rocking the machine? 

While its not running I can shift through all the gears without rocking the machine. I can also shift through all the gears at idle while not moving. 

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7 hours ago, shadetree said:

its posb someone ?,..got it all outta whack ?, this calls for pulling front cover, and inspecting the inside at clutches. I know you did not want to hear this ?!..but..it had to be said. you can stand the atv up on its tail end, or at least high enough to get front cover off without loosing some oil ?. or just drain the oil..which is what I would do when working on engines while in the frame. if it were me ?, here is what I would do: i'd buy a new oil pump chain, new front cover gasket ( if it calls for one ? ), or just yamabond if no gasket ?. I would also buy new clutch friction disk, and maybe even a new one-way clutch bearing ? ( this is optional..but may as well seeing how your already pulling front cover..right ? ). tear it apart, and start going through it, checking everything that has to do with the clutches. AGAIN..THIS IS WHAT I WOULD DO !. please keep us updated on your progress ! :-). p.s.: MAKE SURE YOU DO NOT USE ANY KIND OF RTV SEALANT WHERE THERE IS NO GASKET ?!...ONLY USE HONDABOND OR YAMABOND !!!!!.

Yes, I am thinking the guy before me adjusted the clutch until the screw is where it is. It shifted slightly better when I test drove it. It has gotten worse over the two months I've rode it. I haven't really rode much, I have just been riding to try and get it running right.. I am not worried about pulling the cover, I am heading out to do it now. I have done a decent amount of work with cars. Pulling that cover off is less work than changing my brakes so I am not sweating it. Just so I understand the steps you would take, are you saying you would replace the clutch disks because in your opinion that is the problem, or your just replacing that because you are already in there? I definitely do not disagree either way, I just want to understand your reasoning. I know when I replaced the timing belt on my 06 Honda Pilot, I replaced the water pump, and anything else I could while I had it apart because it just makes sense... There is a gasket, Harvey Spooner got away without replacing it, I didn't order one initially and now I am somewhat regretting it. I will probably see if somewhere local has it, if not I will be waiting a few days on that. Will update when I get it apart. I am interested to see what @toodeep is thinking too. 

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Something that comes to mind , and since you are going to take off the cover it is easy to check ,  if the previous owner was inside that side cover and messed with the clutch , it is possible that the first disc of the clutch is pinched in the basket , I pinched a disc one time and it done about the same thing  as you described , when you look at the clutch disc thru the ears of the basket , they should all be tight together and no gaps 

 

you might also find the triangle bearing holder was misaligned and is now bent up 

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On the mechanical side all I can think of is the bearing on the clutch is bad, giving a bad clutch adjustment. I think we covered everything else over and over so a few pics after the cover is removed possibly will give some new details. If anyone has had that covered removed before then we might have to look for missing parts (thrust washer, etc). Most of the time you can see a sign of something if it has been removed before.

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20200220_195959.jpgSnapchat-1712905377.jpg   

Here are the pictures I took tonight. Unfortunately I did not see anything that looks bent, distorted or damaged or really any different comparing my old parts to my new parts. I do see a decent amount of crud on the plates and obviously that huge heat ring around the centrifugal clutch. I will get pictures of the bearing tomorrow. I am wondering if the crud indicates that the discs are stuck stuck together like @toodeep you were saying. I didn't replace the parts and finish the job tonight because I don't see anything wrong with the current parts and wanted to let you guys take a look. Let me know what you think or if there's any other parts pictures that would be helpful and I will take them. The only thing wrong that I could see with the triangle bearing is one of the balls showed minor resistance when moving it around but it didn't seem like nearly enough to keep the clutch from engaging. 

20200220_195842.jpg

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Is that a crack in the plate or just a weird reflection? How is the bearing under that plate?

recon.png

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