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jeepwm69

05-11 Foreman 500 FM engine rebuild

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Going to do this a little bass ackwards, because I didn't start taking pics while I was disassembling it.   The disassembly pics will be at the end when I tear into the next one, and remember to take pics.

 

This is a 2011 Foreman 500 Footshift motor.  Crank was bad, and guts were full of piston bits and ring remnants, so I tore it all the way down, had Vince at Mr Crankshaft install a Vesrah rod, and am resembling.

 

This morning I installed the rear main crank bearing, then the crank and balancer (see reference marks to time then in the 2nd pic), then the transmission and shift shaft.

500 crank bearing.JPG

500 crank marks.JPG

500 crank press.JPG

500 crank.JPG

500 bottom.JPG

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4 minutes ago, jeepwm69 said:

Going to do this a little bass ackwards, because I didn't start taking pics while I was disassembling it.   The disassembly pics will be at the end when I tear into the next one, and remember to take pics.

 

This is a 2011 Foreman 500 Footshift motor.  Crank was bad, and guts were full of piston bits and ring remnants, so I tore it all the way down, had Vince at Mr Crankshaft install a Vesrah rod, and am resembling.

 

This morning I installed the rear main crank bearing, then the crank and balancer (see reference marks to time then in the 2nd pic), then the transmission and shift shaft.

In the past ,I've gotten these cases put together, and then realized I forgot to put in the shift shaft!  Not pictured is the foot shifter shaft, which I installed along with a new seal. 

4 minutes ago, jeepwm69 said:

500 crank bearing.JPG

500 crank marks.JPG

500 crank press.JPG

500 crank.JPG

500 bottom.JPG

 

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Here is the difference in the 05-08 low/first gear set, and the updated 09-11 style gear set.

 

Originally low gear had 4 dogs on the inside of the gear.  This allowed quite a bit of slack and those dogs would have some speed and pop against each other, eventually rounding them off.  It starts off as an occasional "pop" as they slip and then catch, but eventually it will pop, pop, pop the whole time you're in first, followed by first no longer pulling when they get completely rounded off.  If you find an 05-08 bike that has been abused this is pretty common. 

 

The updated gear set has 6 dogs so it's a much more robust design. 

 

The 09-11 gear set is only about $65 but it does require tearing the motor all the way down to replace it.

 

IF someone is scared to split cases, but wanted to tackle this job, it can be done while leaving the transmission in place, because the gears that you replace are on the top of the transmission, so you can take them off, put the new gears in place, leaving the transmission sitting in the case (in the bottom pic of the assembled bottom end, 1st gear is the biggest one, right on top)

 

 

 

 

old gear.jpg

new gear.jpeg

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Have to make sure you get all the thrust washers in place before you seal it up.

 

Also, on this particular engine there are a couple of bolts that get overlooked during case splitting 

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Flywheel and starter gear in place. There’s a spacer with a cage bearing under the flywheel. I double check against schematics when in doubt.

 

Rear output seal and reverse seal being replaced. 

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This is the gear position switch. It sits up in a groove in the back of the shift drum. As the drum turns, the T on the switch is spun and sends the signal telling your meter what gear you are in.

 

A very common screw-up is to have the T 180 degrees out. 

 

The long side of the T should be pointing at the N on the switch. 

 

Make sure the transmission is in neutral and the T will line up with the slot in the drum if the long side of the T is pointing to the N on the switch 

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Last on the back side is the crank seal. If this one starts seeping water can get in your engine under the pull start. 

 

I replace all these seals every time. They’re cheap and MUCH easier to install with the engine on the bench 

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Got the back end buttoned up, crank pulley bolt and pull start installed (thought I took a pic but guess I didn’t).

 

Flipped it around and got the cam slid back in and timing chain installed. 

 

You can see the original chain was fairly stretched. Not horribly so, but a new OEM chain is $20, so they get replaced too.

 

That’s where I had to stop for the morning. Had to come in and feed the baby.

 

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Wow! thats a nice clean engine case there for sure!

Great writeup so far!

 I just had to do this awhile back for first gear and figured if I was in that far.... so I  did  all seals, gaskets and check all bearings, chain etc.. and did a "Superclean" of the everything inside as welll. Suprising the sludge and junk that flushes out of some these engine cases sometimes

What do use to clean your cases by chance?

I found that starting fluid works really well, is kind of cheap (walmart supertech) but a can sure goes quick

Thanks again for great writeup and talk with you soon

 

 

Edited by AKATV

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I have always used starter fluid, but recently put together a harbor freight parts washer and used that. Love it so far. 

 

If this wasnt a charity build for a buddy I might have cleaned up the outside too, but he’s just going to get it muddy again!

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20 minutes ago, jeepwm69 said:

I have always used starter fluid, but recently put together a harbor freight parts washer and used that. Love it so far. 

 

If this wasnt a charity build for a buddy I might have cleaned up the outside too, but he’s just going to get it muddy again!

haha..yeah, I noticed ya did not clean the outsides up ?. you know how I do on my builds, I can't stand muddy,dirty, greasy looking engines !..lol.

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This morning I got the oil pump installed, shifting bits put in, clutches reinstalled, and then the front cover back on.  Adjusted the clutches, and then put the new piston in place and got the cylinder installed. 

 

A VERY common thing people mess up when doing this (I learned by doing it wrong, and having to go back into the engine).

 

When you put the 4 springs and bolts back on the change clutch (2nd pic) those 4 towers that the bolts go into should float in the basket.  When you start the 4 bolts, grab that center plate that goes over the springs and wiggle it and pull up on it.  When you tighten those 4 bolts down, the clutch plates should not wiggle at all in the basket.  The center part that the 4 bolts go in should be holding the plates in place.  If you pinch the plate, the plates will be loose in the basket, so CHECK IT and make sure those plates aren't loose.  If you forget, and they're not tight, you get to pull the front cover back off.  Major PITA.

 

So next I guess I'm going to see if I can get my buddy's spark issue fixed so I can swap motors and get it back out of my yard.

 

Had to stop here to go to my real job

 

.

oil pump.JPG

clutch.JPG

shift mech.JPG

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7 hours ago, jeepwm69 said:

This morning I got the oil pump installed, shifting bits put in, clutches reinstalled, and then the front cover back on.  Adjusted the clutches, and then put the new piston in place and got the cylinder installed. 

 

A VERY common thing people mess up when doing this (I learned by doing it wrong, and having to go back into the engine).

 

When you put the 4 springs and bolts back on the change clutch (2nd pic) those 4 towers that the bolts go into should float in the basket.  When you start the 4 bolts, grab that center plate that goes over the springs and wiggle it and pull up on it.  When you tighten those 4 bolts down, the clutch plates should not wiggle at all in the basket.  The center part that the 4 bolts go in should be holding the plates in place.  If you pinch the plate, the plates will be loose in the basket, so CHECK IT and make sure those plates aren't loose.  If you forget, and they're not tight, you get to pull the front cover back off.  Major PITA.

 

So next I guess I'm going to see if I can get my buddy's spark issue fixed so I can swap motors and get it back out of my yard.

 

Had to stop here to go to my real job

 

.

oil pump.JPG

clutch.JPG

shift mech.JPG

second pic, is it me, or is the cam sprocket not lined up with the top index arrow to punch mark on cam ?.

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By then time he cleaned his hands to take a pic he probably moved it. Hardest part on these threads, taking the pic without destroying the device. 

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Yeah I'd spun things over by that point to make sure the transmission drum wasn't bound up.  I learned that one the hard way on the wife's 420.  Got it all the way back in the bike and the shift drum was pinched and wouldn't turn.

 

Now I lightly set the star wheel on the shift drum, and spin the motor over to make sure I can shift through all the gears turning the shift drum.

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Got the valves lapped and head cleaned up this morning, and installed, so now the engine is complete and ready to swap in.

 

Then I tore down the 07 500 motor that's been sitting under my bench.  I bought a complete 07 500 from a kid about 3-4 years ago with the intention of fixing it up and flipping it.  Made the same mistake on this one's bottom end; no up and down play on the rod, but the wrist pin hole is galled, so I'm sure that when I clean it up I'll have slack and have to rebuild that crank too.  Looks like he went full retard on the shifter too LOL  That's red RTV.  At first I thought I'd just clean it off, but nope, he ruined it somehow.

 

Was in a rush so didn't get any pics, but no worries, as I have an ES motor that I'll be doing after this one!  LOL

 

Luckily I have lots of parts hoarded for these 500's since I had three of them at one time (have two now, and the Rubicon).  Only problem is my other two heads BOTH have valve cover bolts twisted off in them.  That's gonna be fun drilling them out and helicoiling the holes.

head.JPG

heads.JPG

shifter.JPG

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11 minutes ago, jeepwm69 said:

Got the valves lapped and head cleaned up this morning, and installed, so now the engine is complete and ready to swap in.

 

Then I tore down the 07 500 motor that's been sitting under my bench.  I bought a complete 07 500 from a kid about 3-4 years ago with the intention of fixing it up and flipping it.  Made the same mistake on this one's bottom end; no up and down play on the rod, but the wrist pin hole is galled, so I'm sure that when I clean it up I'll have slack and have to rebuild that crank too.  Looks like he went full retard on the shifter too LOL  That's red RTV.  At first I thought I'd just clean it off, but nope, he ruined it somehow.

 

Was in a rush so didn't get any pics, but no worries, as I have an ES motor that I'll be doing after this one!  LOL

 

Luckily I have lots of parts hoarded for these 500's since I had three of them at one time (have two now, and the Rubicon).  Only problem is my other two heads BOTH have valve cover bolts twisted off in them.  That's gonna be fun drilling them out and helicoiling the holes.

head.JPG

heads.JPG

shifter.JPG

don't ya just love it..when you find stupid all over a motor ?!!..lol.

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But who's the stupid one?  The kid who did it, or me for buying it?

 

Paid $300 for this one, minus the rear end (I already had a rear end to put in it that I'd traded for some work I did for someone)

 

It was of course snorkeled, but the inside of the bottom end was surprisingly clean except for the pieces of piston.  Guess he blew up the top end before he had a chance to sink it.

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I have never been a helicoil fan, I use keenserts on the smaller bolts where there is enough room. Once locked in place they should never come back out.

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5 minutes ago, toodeep said:

I have never been a helicoil fan, I use keenserts on the smaller bolts where there is enough room. Once locked in place they should never come back out.

Never heard of a keensert.  I'll have to look that up.

 

I have a big kit of different sized metric helicoils I bought a while back.

 

I also have used a timesert to repair a blown out spark plug on my sister's Toyota van. 

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Keenserts are similar to the timesert but they have little locks to lock it after it's been installed.

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I like that shift shaft , it's funky ... 

 

I have a buddy that is shop foreman of a equipment company  , he recently told me about some new stuff he used to thread a stripped out hole in his jet ski engine , says he drilled the hole next size bigger applied some type  of putty into the hole and around the threads of the bolt which he put some liquid on first so it would release , and then pushed and screwed the bolt into the putty by hand  , let it dry then unscrewed the bolt and the threads were formed 

 

I have " glued " in an exhaust stud into a head where it had stripped out , used Minute Bond and it is still holding , but I didn't have to unscrew that one as it is a stud , and I have made a stud out of a bolt on the side cover of my blue 300 , it works great cause it acts as a line up pin when you go on with the cover 

 

Do you have room to do a stud 

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24 minutes ago, Fishfiles said:

I like that shift shaft , it's funky ... 

 

I have a buddy that is shop foreman of a equipment company  , he recently told me about some new stuff he used to thread a stripped out hole in his jet ski engine , says he drilled the hole next size bigger applied some type  of putty into the hole and around the threads of the bolt which he put some liquid on first so it would release , and then pushed and screwed the bolt into the putty by hand  , let it dry then unscrewed the bolt and the threads were formed 

 

I have " glued " in an exhaust stud into a head where it had stripped out , used Minute Bond and it is still holding , but I didn't have to unscrew that one as it is a stud , and I have made a stud out of a bolt on the side cover of my blue 300 , it works great cause it acts as a line up pin when you go on with the cover 

 

Do you have room to do a stud 

Well these are right on top of the head, hold the valve cover on.  Would take a long stud to go up through the valve cover.    Interestingly enough, the same one is broken off in both of my spare heads, and then one of them has a second neighboring bolt broken off.

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12 minutes ago, jeepwm69 said:

Well these are right on top of the head, hold the valve cover on.  Would take a long stud to go up through the valve cover.    Interestingly enough, the same one is broken off in both of my spare heads, and then one of them has a second neighboring bolt broken off.

reminds me of the dreaded lower right cylinder bolts on the trx350 ranchers !..lol, the two on lower right side of the cylinder ?, they were always prone to snap off, no matter how easy you were on them !.

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