BlueSparrow 7 Posted November 13, 2020 Hi, I was looking for a recommendation for a new Honda ATV that is good at towing? I'm in the UK. Looking at the spec the Foreman 520 IRS PS (TRX520FM6) looks a good candidate, it has a towing capacity of 599kg. I need an ATV I can take from my home along a single track road to another area of land 11 miles away, so it would have to be one I could drive on the road legally. p.s. I posted this exact same topic over on the hondaatvforums.net forum, someone recommended I post it here and get in touch with SamUK as they have a road legal honda quad and might be able to help me. Anyone know how to get in touch with SamUK? This is my thread from the other forum: https://www.hondaatvforums.net/threads/recommendations-for-a-honda-atv-great-at-towing-preferably-road-legal-in-the-uk.133796 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
_Wilson_™ 6,591 Posted November 13, 2020 (edited) you can send him a PM from his profile link https://atvhonda.com/profile/12-samuk/ i haven't seen him a while, being he's busy with his new family, and work. welcome to the forums. Edited November 13, 2020 by _Wilson_™ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oh400ex 629 Posted November 13, 2020 Welcome! Foreman IRS with power steering is a great "last quad you will ever need" choice. Hard to go wrong as long as you stay away from ES and Hondamatic IMO @SamUK will be able to tell you about street legalization in your neck of the woods but here you need to add a few things. Turn signals and street tires are the biggest hurdles for most folks who want to drive on the paved roads here (Arkansas) Amazon and other online retailers have full battery-powered kits to add headlight, taillight, brake light and turn signals to any machine. I am looking to license one of my quads for the road as well so I'll be following your journey! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlueSparrow 7 Posted November 14, 2020 9 minutes ago, oh400ex said: Welcome! Foreman IRS with power steering is a great "last quad you will ever need" choice. Hard to go wrong as long as you stay away from ES and Hondamatic IMO @SamUK will be able to tell you about street legalization in your neck of the woods but here you need to add a few things. Turn signals and street tires are the biggest hurdles for most folks who want to drive on the paved roads here (Arkansas) Amazon and other online retailers have full battery-powered kits to add headlight, taillight, brake light and turn signals to any machine. I am looking to license one of my quads for the road as well so I'll be following your journey! Thanks for the info. What I can't understand is how the Foreman 520 PS was a towing capacity of 384kg, but the ones with IRS have a towing capacity of 599kg even though they have the almost the same engine, how is that possible? The specs are in the brochure at the link below, the non-IRS version has a Bore x Stroke of 96.0mm x 71mm, they IRS version has 96.0mm x 71.5mm. That 0.5mm increase in stroke surely can't explain the big increase in towing capacity? https://www.honda.co.uk/atv/get-a-brochure/brochure/download-post.html 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oh400ex 629 Posted November 14, 2020 (edited) 18 minutes ago, BlueSparrow said: What I can't understand is how the Foreman 520 PS was a towing capacity of 384kg, but the ones with IRS have a towing capacity of 599kg even though they have the almost the same engine, how is that possible? Practically (as you suspect) they would not be that different. In the lab, IRS seems to outperform due to travel in the rear keeping the load planted and allowing the power to transfer better to the thing being towed. I think the takeaway should be don't concern yourself with the listed capacity. Either of those machines will outperform most competitors on the market when all factors are considered. Avoid electric shift/Hondamatic and the bike will be a new family heirloom. Edit: I am a fan of Honda's IRS. If money isn't a big object consider going that route either way. Edited November 14, 2020 by oh400ex 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fishfiles 20,147 Posted November 14, 2020 Blue Sparrow , Welcome to the forum .... have no personal experience with pulling a trailer behind an IRS , but I have seen the IRS does not handle weight on the rear rack as well as a straight axle , when you put a lot of weight on the rear of a IRS it sags down , take the weight off the front tires and you can't steer it well , seen this with deer and hogs , they don't take the big deer and hogs out the woods on the rear rack of a IRS bike unless there is no other choice , they have to be put them on the front rack , " whilst me " Honda straight axle will haul a deer on the rear rack 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
_Wilson_™ 6,591 Posted November 14, 2020 (edited) plus one ^^^^ blue, if your going to be pulling a trailer you'd be better off with a SRA setup, then a IRS, i have used a IRS pulling a load before, and the IRS will sag, and have more of a rear role from side to side, unlike a SRA, where the only give will be rear tires, and swing arm it was also depend on the terrain you might be hauling on, IRS might make for a better ride, but not nearly as sturdy for hauling weight as a SRA another plus is the SRA will not require as much maintenance in the long run as a IRS will. thats also why the SRA utilty Hondas are preferred over the IRS machine as work bikes, IRS is simple made for a better ride, not so much for hauling. Edited November 14, 2020 by _Wilson_™ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TBRider 1,411 Posted November 14, 2020 Don't listen to these old goats, the new rubi, tows and handles great, I have a 17 with the same set up, I haul loads of wood out of the bush on my back rack without problems, and pull a fully loaded trailer here without issues, get the IRS you won't regret it. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fishfiles 20,147 Posted November 14, 2020 54 minutes ago, TBRider said: Don't listen to these old goats, the new rubi, tows and handles great, I have a 17 with the same set up, I haul loads of wood out of the bush on my back rack without problems, and pull a fully loaded trailer here without issues, get the IRS you won't regret it. I can still remember when I was young and stupid , and realize you really do have to learn from your own mistakes , I think you are right he needs to get him a IRS to do chores with , LOL ---- you do know GOAT means " Greatest Of All Time " ---- hehehehe 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
_Wilson_™ 6,591 Posted November 14, 2020 i couldn't agree more, lol been there have the book, and shirt. if i was him, I'm take both for a demo ride, but I'd go with SRA, 1st hand experience is always best, book learning will only teach you so much. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TBRider 1,411 Posted November 14, 2020 An SRA gets hung up in the bush easier 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
_Wilson_™ 6,591 Posted November 14, 2020 (edited) IRS has more of a chance for rear c-v boot damage, plus and minus to each one, lol, I'd rather be stuck on a stump then have to have all the rear linkage pulled part for a c-v boot replacement, plus vine wrap, been there, seen it happen many times even on open station SRA setups like the 300. Edited November 14, 2020 by _Wilson_™ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RubiDan 596 Posted November 15, 2020 I haven't ever hauled with an SRA so I don't know what it can do but have hauled with my 17 Rubicon IRS. I've been using a 4'X6' trailer that's been extended out to almost 7'. I've hauled big full loads of green wood with it which I'm sure weigh quite a bit and haven't noticed any excessive squatting and I have looked to make sure. The way your trailer is balanced will make a difference. The UK IRS may be rated to pull more weight if it has a high and low range. The USA Rubicon IRS does have the high and low range. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
_Wilson_™ 6,591 Posted November 15, 2020 well, to each there own, but, I've seen more problem from IRS, from busted c-v boot to messed up c-v joints, and the squat in the back end would also have to do with how the trailer is loaded (tongue / hitch weight) but to say a IRS is better then a SRA. hm, how many trucks are out there with IRS ? you kind of go with what works, and I'm not a fan of IRS. honda sure didnt start out like that, but as time and the loss of quality, they made the mistake of going that way, just to make more money, and offer a machine that would cost the owner more in the long run. same with es, and auto transmissions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RubiDan 596 Posted November 15, 2020 I have to correct myself on one thing. I said the US Rubicon IRS has a high and low range but I should have said the US Rubicon IRS with DCT has a high and low range because I don't think the manual has it. I can't say which one is best for towing because I haven't used the SRA but I have to believe that using the low range has to be easier on the drive train when towing a load. I have had a person riding behind me that weighed in at probably 220 while climbing a hill that was moderately steep and the front end felt light. When I had a person behind me that weighed about 130 I couldn't tell that they were there. If I were Blue Sparrow I'd try to ride and test both to see which one would work the best. I've found that usually one size does not fit all. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlueSparrow 7 Posted November 15, 2020 I'm thinking of getting a Honda Foreman 520 with the SRA. But it seems like there are two different versions of it: Foreman PS 2/4wd (TRX520FM2) 518cc. 5fwd/1rev gears. Manual transmission + power steering (PS). £9,700.00 Foreman ES PS 2/4wd (TRX520FE2) - 5fwd/1rev gears. Handlebar mounted electric gear shift (ESP). Gear position indicator + power steering (PS). £10,200.00 Would it be better to get the slightly more expensive one with the ESP? Or would the other one without ESP be better for towing? Can't you select it into manual and electric gear shifting? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oh400ex 629 Posted November 15, 2020 5 minutes ago, BlueSparrow said: Would it be better to get the slightly more expensive one with the ESP? Or would the other one without ESP be better for towing? Can't you select it into manual and electric gear shifting? Avoid ESP like the plague. Consider buying used as well. If you are not going with IRS (which you should IMO) there are comparatively many options for a used machine. The main disadvantage of Honda's independent rear was perfectly described by fish. If you load the back up too heavy they won't ride as well as the SRA. My counterpoint to this is just don't overload the rack. If you have something that heavy... put it in the trailer. Hard to go wrong either way. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlueSparrow 7 Posted November 15, 2020 1 hour ago, oh400ex said: Avoid ESP like the plague. Consider buying used as well. If you are not going with IRS (which you should IMO) there are comparatively many options for a used machine. The main disadvantage of Honda's independent rear was perfectly described by fish. If you load the back up too heavy they won't ride as well as the SRA. My counterpoint to this is just don't overload the rack. If you have something that heavy... put it in the trailer. Hard to go wrong either way. Thanks for the advice. I need to do more research into the SRA/IRS towing debate before I decide what to get, there seems to be two schools of thought as to which one is better. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PROV 1,443 Posted November 15, 2020 I know you guys hate ES but I've got 10,000 miles on them and never had a problem. Haul trailers full of gear in and out of the hunting shack, trailers full of firewood and skidded trees and power poles, hauled deer etc. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fishfiles 20,147 Posted November 15, 2020 Blue Sparrow , whilst we wait on SamUK to show up on the street legal info for the UK , I found his thread on that 450S build of his and think you'll find the info in his thread , I remember him talking about it https://www.hondaatvforums.net/threads/foreman-450s-another-to-the-collection.123436/ 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
_Wilson_™ 6,591 Posted November 15, 2020 4 hours ago, BlueSparrow said: I'm thinking of getting a Honda Foreman 520 with the SRA. But it seems like there are two different versions of it: Foreman PS 2/4wd (TRX520FM2) 518cc. 5fwd/1rev gears. Manual transmission + power steering (PS). £9,700.00 Foreman ES PS 2/4wd (TRX520FE2) - 5fwd/1rev gears. Handlebar mounted electric gear shift (ESP). Gear position indicator + power steering (PS). £10,200.00 Would it be better to get the slightly more expensive one with the ESP? Or would the other one without ESP be better for towing? Can't you select it into manual and electric gear shifting? id go with choice one for manual shift, as you said less money for a manual shift verses more for an es which will give you trouble down the road, as fish posted the SRA is better for towing, hauling weight of the rear rack. 11 hours ago, RubiDan said: If I were Blue Sparrow I'd try to ride and test both to see which one would work the best. I've found that usually one size does not fit all excellent advise Rubidan ^^^^ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RubiDan 596 Posted November 15, 2020 (edited) Blue Sparrow, have you went and looked at them yet? If you haven't that may be the best way to make up your mind. It would be best if you can talk to an honest salesman and get them to explain all of the functions and why the IRS has a higher load capacity. If you're trying to decide between the electric shift and the foot shift it would be best if you rode one. I don't have much experience with four wheelers and a lot of people say the electric shift is problematic but I don't know it that is true of the newer ones or not. If @toodeep chimes in he'll be the one who should know how reliable the new ones are. I'm not trying to steer you one way or the other about which one to buy but just telling you what my personal experience is. Good luck on whatever choice you make. Edited November 15, 2020 by RubiDan 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlueSparrow 7 Posted November 15, 2020 (edited) 13 minutes ago, RubiDan said: Blue Sparrow, have you went and looked at them yet? If you haven't that may be the best way to make up your mind. It would be best if you can talk to an honest salesman and get them to explain all of the functions and why the IRS has a higher load capacity. If you're trying to decide between the electric shift and the foot shift it would be best if you rode one. I don't have much experience with four wheelers and a lot of people say the electric shift is problematic but I don't know it that is true of the newer ones or not. If @toodeep chimes in he'll be the one who should know how reliable the new ones are. I'm not trying to steer you one way or the other about which one to buy but just telling you what my personal experience is. Good luck on whatever choice you make. No I haven't seen any of the ATVs yet, I live quite far from any dealers that have showrooms so will have to wait until I go to a big town in a few weeks then I'll have a look at different models in person. There are some dealers nearer me but they don't keep any in stock, you have to order them in. Edited November 15, 2020 by BlueSparrow Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeepwm69 7,719 Posted November 16, 2020 Glad you made it over here. @Fishfiles found where @SamUK posted about his 450. If I recall correctly, an ATV in the UK has to be certified for road use when sold new. If it is, it will always be legal for road use. If it isn't, it can never be certified for road use. Sam had a 300 that he sold when he got the 450, because the 450 was legal for road use and the 300 could not be modified to ever be legal for road use. As for the ES/footshift, I like the footshift. It gives me a free hand (left hand) while I'm riding and it's a simpler system (twitch your foot to turn the shift shaft vs pushing a button, which activates an electric motor on the front of the engine, which turns the shift shaft). If any of the wiring, or the electric motor have issues, you won't be able to shift using the buttons. Cheaper too. Some people do like the ES machines, but they do require more maintenance. And IRS vs Solid axle.....if you're going to be trail riding a lot, IRS is the way to go. You get much better ride quality. For work, I prefer a sold rear axle. Stronger, more solid, and cheaper. The only IRS machine I have is the wife's. All of my other machines are SRA. They ride rough, but so do my 35 year old Jeeps. Rough riding, rugged work machines don't bother me. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlueSparrow 7 Posted November 17, 2020 20 hours ago, jeepwm69 said: If I recall correctly, an ATV in the UK has to be certified for road use when sold new. If it is, it will always be legal for road use. If it isn't, it can never be certified for road use. Sam had a 300 that he sold when he got the 450, because the 450 was legal for road use and the 300 could not be modified to ever be legal for road use. Thanks for the reply, in the UK even if you manage to get an ATV registered road legal, it still needs road legal tires, I think pretty much every ATV comes with stock tires that are only for off-road, probably road legal ATV tires would be expensive and not very suitable for off-road, so I'm thinking of just going down the route of not using the ATV on the road and hauling it around in a trailer. The Foreman non-IRS length and breadth dimensions are listed as 2100mm x 1200mm (6.89 foot x 3.94 foot , the Foreman IRS is listed as 2147mm x 1205mm (7.04 foot x 3.95 foot). Trailers in the UK tend to come in foot sizes, at 7.04 foot long do people think a Foreman IRS might squeeze into a 7 foot long trailer or is it just too long as the measurements would suggest. I might need to go got an 8 foot x 4 foot or 8 foot x 5 foot, I'd prefer to go for a 7 foot x 4 foot as it would be cheaper. As well as getting a road legal trailer I was looking at getting a off-road dumper trailer like the one at the link below, does anyone have experience of transporting a smaller trailer and ATV inside a transport trailer at the same time? Maybe store the smaller trailer upside-down on top of the ATV? It's not a huge problem if I can't transport them at the same time I'd take them one at a time. https://www.becksidemachinery.co.uk/product-page/4-wheel-atv-trailer 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites