An "F" for BRP Engineers

[Freedomflyer 1,913]

I'm not gonna lie, I love my two Outlanders!!!! Since we've had them our riding days are longer, we are less fatigued at the end of the day and for the drive home from the trailhead, and really aren't even sore the next day from all of the mountain maneuvering. Since we've had them (and I'm speaking honestly) they have performed flawlessly. We have been using them as they were intended,  running in low range in the steep curvy terrain,  using 4 when drive when needed,  allowing the engine breaking to do what it is supposed to do when descending and it works unbelievably well. I'm also not going to lie when I say the access to oil filter,  and gearbox drain plug and filler cap leave something to be desired. I think the engineering department all need to be kicked in the groin a half a dozen times or so.  I tore into my machines the other night and changed all the fluids. Oil, gearbox, and front and rear differentials. Glad to get both of them done. Meant to do it before we went on our first ride. Our 2019 needed it because we bought it new and it hadn't been done yet, our 2016 needed it because I didn't know what shape it was in before I bought it so for my own piece of mind wanted to do it too. Turned out the rear differential  was extremely dirty and a little low on fluid. My wifes wasn't too bad. There was no way I was going to pay the local dealership $350+ each to do a full fluid service. I started about 7:00  and climbed into bed at 2:00 in the morning🤯🤪😴  It was a royal pain and hence the "F" for their design to access necessary drain plugs and oil filter. Had to remove a lot of stuff. Glad I won't have to touch the gear box and differentials for at least a couple years. Will have to change oil of course but differentials should be fine. Here's the pile of stuff I had to remove on each machine...yeah not a fan. Good thing the ride is so nice,  spent about an hour and a half just removing and installing the plastics. 😬 At least the gear box and differentials are good for a couple years,  I should be over it by then.😁 here's a few pics of the mess. 

[THH 297]

Lots of work to simply change fluids for sure!!

Engineering dept. doing their best to try to make you bring it to the dealer, Good job proving you don't need the dealer to do it.

[Fishfiles 20,147]

Did you change the spark plugs yet ??   The one to the rear is not too bad , the forward plug is unreal , lots of sharp edges and rusted exhaust parts that had to come out the way -----  my friend flip and flooded  his 570 and I help him flush it all out ... 

[Melatv 797]

Yes I hear you "FF" -- my friend has a Can-am which I do the maintenance for him -- one needs 4 hands to do some of the work on it -- good riding bike -- but a pain to work on.

[Freedomflyer 1,913]

2 hours ago, Fishfiles said:

Did you change the spark plugs yet ??   The one to the rear is not too bad , the forward plug is unreal , lots of sharp edges and rusted exhaust parts that had to come out the way -----  my friend flip and flooded  his 570 and I help him flush it all out ... 

No not yet, only 380 miles on my wifes, the other one just over 700. Guess I need to start thinking about that too!🤔😠🤯. I'm sure it will be a great experience. 😁

[Fishfiles 20,147]

I guess it is cause you don't go in the mud , but my buddy's Moe 570 is always broken , he breaks a " lot " of axles , on his 3rd rear diff , 2 front diff ,  new display , blew out the transmission , and that is just what I can remember  but he is running aggressive 28 OutlawII and hard on the thumb ------ he just changed his  front drive shaft seal and bearing and a new front axle before the last trip -----his son's 1000 has a list longer than his of all the parts he changed , he is on his 3rd engine rebuild , and right now the transmission housing is blown to pieces , he is die hard Can-Am , he just got a 215 HP Maverick and already sunk $10K extra in tires , rims  , lift kits , portals , lights and sound system 

[Freedomflyer 1,913]

🤯😵 Holy Cow!! No, I don't do a lot of mud, this first ride, I think, is some of the dirtiest, wettest, muddiest, and iciest trails I've ever been on and they aren't even that bad in comparison to the kind of riding you and your friends are doing. I don't even like taking my machine through water as deep as the foot wells😁. Most of our riding is on twisty/winding trails that dont open up until mid June, the forest service does that so they dont get torn to shreds. Even then there's not a lot of water crossings or puddles, we try not to get them too dirty as my wife never helps with the clean up, any prep to go riding, just gets on, hits the start button, gear selector, and squeezes the throttle, Easy Peasy!!!! 🙄 We have so many miles of trails that are so far back into the mountains it would be a maintenance nightmare if the forest service didn't regulate the use during spring runoff and melting. So... all that to say my machines don't get that hardcore use. I'm not saying it wouldn't be fun to do some of that kind of riding I just don't want to spend the time nor $$$$ to be fixin' and repairin'😄. I'm a lightweight😉, see, they're not even that bad after a full day of riding. But spent 4 hours cleaning them up anyway.😏 Notice our grass hasn't even started greening up yet😒

Edited April 17, 2021 by Freedomflyer

[jeepwm69 7,751]

I think more and more we will see things that are unreasonably difficult to maintain, and I think it's be design.  People paying dealerships for maint and repair is where they make their money.

[Freedomflyer 1,913]

20 minutes ago, jeepwm69 said:

People paying dealerships for maint and repair is where they make their money.

I AGREE!!!! Our problem is the dealership here has gotten to ths point where thir concern is the sale. If you bought the machine there they will deal with you, if not good luck. My brother bought a used 800 they make every excuse in the book not to even touch it, the dealership in Billings 140 miles away is total opposite will bend over backwards to do whatever they can to take care of you. My oldest brother did buy a machine from the Billings dealership and started experiencing some electrical issues. He took it back and they gave him a brand new machine off the floor to use while they figured out what the problem was. They had his machine for 3 1/2 weeks he put about 200 miles on the loaner. When they called him he took the machine back no charge other than his expense in gas and time over and back. Ended up some one at the factory was having a bad day and ran the main wiring harness in the wrong place so the seat was rubbing on it and finally broke a couple of wires that were causing a short to the guage cluster. They put a new wiring harness in and he hasn't had an issue since.  That's the way it should work. I I've called over there with questions on various little things and they get a tech on the phone that is willing to spend the time to answer questions and lets yiu know if it's something I myself can take care of then explains how to do it.  Hmmmm.....imagine that, customer service!!!  Even though it's 140 miles over because there's not much population around here speed limit is 80 so takes les than 2 hrs to get there, Wide open rode with not much traffic.

Edited April 19, 2021 by Freedomflyer

[shadetree 5,977]

hahaha..i wonder how many parts ya have to remove to put air in the tires ?..lol. shoulda bought a honda !!!.

[Freedomflyer 1,913]

😉 Took you long enough to respond😁.  Don't care for that particular part of it but I honestly do like the ride and performance of them.  Not sure if my wife would still be wanting to ride if we'd kept the Ranchers. I  know the new models have independent suspension but it sure is easier for her to not have to worry about shifting.  Also easier for the friends we take with us as well. I  won't have to deal with the differentials and gear box fluids for a while now. Like I said, if Honda ever does a 2 person machine I'll be in line to get a couple.

[slowindown 494]

I’ve replaced the gearbox in my commander and I wrote up a step-by-step procedure for it on the commander forum. I only half jokingly began:

”step one: disassemble commander.”

 

Figuring out how to access something’s or remove somethings is akin to solving a Rubik’s cube. But self repairing it is possible tho frustrating and time consuming. 

Edited May 17, 2021 by slowindown

[Freedomflyer 1,913]

I guess I'll deal with it when the time comes. We've got friends that have had Outlanders for years and Nary an issue. Will try follow the suggested guidelines,  we're pretty easy riders.

[shadetree 5,977]

2 hours ago, Freedomflyer said:

😉 Took you long enough to respond😁.  Don't care for that particular part of it but I honestly do like the ride and performance of them.  Not sure if my wife would still be wanting to ride if we'd kept the Ranchers. I  know the new models have independent suspension but it sure is easier for her to not have to worry about shifting.  Also easier for the friends we take with us as well. I  won't have to deal with the differentials and gear box fluids for a while now. Like I said, if Honda ever does a 2 person machine I'll be in line to get a couple.

i was busy tearing into my front brakes on my old '89 trx350D , too see if i could put a disk brake kit on her ?, from what i've seen so far ?, it should work !. best part ?, I DO NOT HAVE TO TAKE HER ALL APART JUST TO SEE IF IT WILL WORK !..LOL.

[shadetree 5,977]

2 hours ago, slowindown said:

I’ve replaced the gearbox in my commander and I wrote up a step-by-step procedure for it on the commander forum. I only half jokingly began:

”step one: disassemble commander.”

 

Figuring out how to access something’s or remove somethings is akin to solving a Rubik’s cube. But self repairing it is possible tho frustrating and time consuming. 

maybe if the service manual said in first step, 1LB OF C4, 2nd step...run like heck !..lol.

[Freedomflyer 1,913]

I really do miss the simplcity of working on the Hondas. Everything pretty  accessible that's for sure.  Pretty cool you can retro fit a kit, I do like the disc brakes,  what's really bizarre is they only put 3 disc's on these machines, 1 on the right rear wheel,  another weird thing is there's only one brake lever on the left handlebar,????? That was strange at first,  don't really think of it anymore. Engine braking works extremely well,  use the lever more or less to set parking brake. You going to document the disc mod?  Be interested to see that. 

[slowindown 494]

My commander only has 3 disk brakes too. But it has strong engine braking. Some have discs on both rear corners but I’m thinking that’s just the 4 seat ones. 
 

The Yamaha rhino I used to have only had 3 discs too. The rear one was on the driveline instead of a wheel like the commander. 

[shadetree 5,977]

1 hour ago, Freedomflyer said:

I really do miss the simplcity of working on the Hondas. Everything pretty  accessible that's for sure.  Pretty cool you can retro fit a kit, I do like the disc brakes,  what's really bizarre is they only put 3 disc's on these machines, 1 on the right rear wheel,  another weird thing is there's only one brake lever on the left handlebar,????? That was strange at first,  don't really think of it anymore. Engine braking works extremely well,  use the lever more or less to set parking brake. You going to document the disc mod?  Be interested to see that. 

yep, started a thread in the custom section.

[Freedomflyer 1,913]

Cool, will check it out. 

[jeepwm69 7,751]

The way @Freedomflyer uses his Canned Ham, they're likely to last just fine. 

 

Using rigs like @Fishfiles uses his is where the Honda shines, both in toughness (run them with water in the crankcase) and ease of repair (which is often required due to the type of use).

 

Cruising the trails that flyer has out there shouldn't abuse those rigs to where they'll need frequent repairs.

[CamKnouff 148]

Yes, there are poor designs out there, but they all have some common faults.  EG: electrical connections, this one disconnects this way, that one the other way, different ones on the same machine can be different, and if you can't see it, 500% increase in the possibility of breaking it.  And off topic: seat belts; if in a panic situation one might as well be in a straight jacket trying to get out; I feel they should all be standard.

[shadetree 5,977]

1 hour ago, jeepwm69 said:

The way @Freedomflyer uses his Canned Ham, they're likely to last just fine. 

 

Using rigs like @Fishfiles uses his is where the Honda shines, both in toughness (run them with water in the crankcase) and ease of repair (which is often required due to the type of use).

 

Cruising the trails that flyer has out there shouldn't abuse those rigs to where they'll need frequent repairs.

ask fish if he got that trx300fw motor rebuilt yet ??..lol.