87Iroc 344 Posted July 14, 2020 I'll keep my posts shorter...I tend to be long winded. Thanks for the help guys. Thanks for the further suggestions Fishfiles. I have been keeping an eye on the fuel line...but the Honda carbs have a more beneficial angle than the Chinese carbs that like to point the inlet straight up. I tried to make an IV bottle last weekend but it was a miserable failure(gas everywhere).Shoulda used a pop bottle probably. I'll do that next time The honda carb I got is a bit tired, all the screws were rounded out, lots of varnish, but a good pair of vice grips and a little PB Blaster and they walked out w/o much of a fuss. Can I soak it dismantled in one of those buckets of carb clean to get the orifices cleaned out? I think they are all clear now....but a good soaking wouldn't hurt I don't think. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fishfiles 20,145 Posted July 15, 2020 Make them post as long as you need to , the more info the better --- I know what you mean about the barb not facing the right way on a Chi-naa carb , the jets are most likely the wrong size also I just had to buy a new IV bottle , have not got it yet in the mail , I leant it to a friend and it came back broken , he said it was dry rot and cracked , I watched him dump the fuel out of it when he took it , didn't leave here cracked , but any ways , a useful tool for tuning and troubleshooting so you can run it with the tank off https://www.ebay.com/itm/BIKEMASTER-AUXILIARY-FUEL-TANK-EC-900N/193106451592?epid=209937004&hash=item2cf60a9c88:g:H9AAAOSwlINcIQ9K:sc:FedExHomeDelivery!70445!US!-1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
87Iroc 344 Posted July 15, 2020 (edited) Here are 2 of the carbs. One with Blue Hose is old one I got in a box with the quad. The other one is one from Ebay I just got and am working on rebuilding. Casting has all same marks on one with blue hose...just is missing the black air bleed machining. I had assumed, as it didn't have the air bleed on it, that it was a China Carb. I'm not so sure now. I can attest the float is identical to the Honda Float. Anyway, just found it interesting. Maybe an ancient aftermarket one using factory die casting. Looking at Partzilla, both the 98 and 2004 Foreman 450 has the air bleed valve. 2004 just has some extra hoses on it. My first thought was it was a later 98-2004 carb. Edited July 15, 2020 by 87Iroc Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
87Iroc 344 Posted July 15, 2020 Is the brass jet/plug here a orifice under the diaphragm and do I need to make sure it is clean....or is this a plug? I am not getting carb clean to go through it right now...but I had to quit for the night. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shadetree 5,867 Posted July 15, 2020 2 hours ago, 87Iroc said: Here are 2 of the carbs. One with Blue Hose is old one I got in a box with the quad. The other one is one from Ebay I just got and am working on rebuilding. Casting has all same marks on one with blue hose...just is missing the black air bleed machining. I had assumed, as it didn't have the air bleed on it, that it was a China Carb. I'm not so sure now. I can attest the float is identical to the Honda Float. Anyway, just found it interesting. Maybe an ancient aftermarket one using factory die casting. Looking at Partzilla, both the 98 and 2004 Foreman 450 has the air bleed valve. 2004 just has some extra hoses on it. My first thought was it was a later 98-2004 carb. carb on right is a fake china knock-off, carb on left is oem from what i see. YES, ALL OF THESE TRX450 CARBS HAVE THE AIR CUT-OFF VALVE !. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shadetree 5,867 Posted July 15, 2020 2 hours ago, 87Iroc said: Is the brass jet/plug here a orifice under the diaphragm and do I need to make sure it is clean....or is this a plug? I am not getting carb clean to go through it right now...but I had to quit for the night. yes it is an orifice, yes they must be cleaned to get air through them. what ever your spray into them ?, it must come out somewhere else . if not ?, it is plugged !. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fishfiles 20,145 Posted July 15, 2020 2 hours ago, shadetree said: carb on right is a fake china knock-off, carb on left is oem from what i see. YES, ALL OF THESE TRX450 CARBS HAVE THE AIR CUT-OFF VALVE !. Looks to me like both those carbs in his pic ^^^ are OEM carbs Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
87Iroc 344 Posted July 15, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Fishfiles said: Looks to me like both those carbs in his pic ^^^ are OEM carbs As an engineer who has worked on castings I can say the castings came from the same manufacturer. There’s a bird looking symbol on it that I bet is the foundry mark. I wonder if lack of air bleed is a different Honda oem carb from another model of atv. I agree with shade tree as partszilla shows all foreman carbs with it but doesn’t mean it’s not a Honda oem from something unless air bleed is on every Honda carb. Edited July 15, 2020 by 87Iroc Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
87Iroc 344 Posted July 15, 2020 5 hours ago, shadetree said: yes it is an orifice, yes they must be cleaned to get air through them. what ever your spray into them ?, it must come out somewhere else . if not ?, it is plugged !. I will keep working on it today. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fishfiles 20,145 Posted July 15, 2020 I see the VE on the side the carbs , there are two VE carbs listed for your year , VE 93A A and VE93C C , I would think VE93A A is the original number that they came with and the VE93C C was the superseded replacement number , they both fit 98-2001 S or ES 450s ----- have noticed with different OEM on different models , sometimes the entire number with letters is not on the carb and some times just the first couple , does yours have numbers and letters too light to see in the pic Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
87Iroc 344 Posted July 15, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Fishfiles said: I see the VE on the side the carbs , there are two VE carbs listed for your year , VE 93A A and VE93C C , I would think VE93A A is the original number that they came with and the VE93C C was the superseded replacement number , they both fit 98-2001 S or ES 450s ----- have noticed with different OEM on different models , sometimes the entire number with letters is not on the carb and some times just the first couple , does yours have numbers and letters too light to see in the pic I'm about to go soak the one I'm rebuilding in carb clean as some of the passages are quite gummed up. I know that it has numbers on it stamped in. The other one...I'll have to try to see if the stamped in numbers are still readable. I tried to see them last night...but didn't spend a lot of time on it. But yes, they both have VE on it. That is what got me to doing a hard compare to the casting. One the casting quality is a bit worse in places....but that woudn't surprise me from even the same supplier. Edited July 15, 2020 by 87Iroc Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
87Iroc 344 Posted July 15, 2020 (edited) VE91C it appears. It could be a 94, not a 91. Doesn't look like it in the pic, but hints of the lower horizontal line on a '4' appears there but could be dirt as its not visible in pic at all. Edited July 15, 2020 by 87Iroc Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
87Iroc 344 Posted July 15, 2020 (edited) Looks like its a thing. I've seen some of you guys talking about 300s... This Honda 16100-HM5-850 CARBURETOR ASSY. (VE91C A) fits the following models and components: Honda ATV 1998 TRX300 A - FOURTRAX 300 CARBURETOR Honda ATV 1996 TRX300FW A - FOURTRAX 300 4X4 CARBURETOR Honda ATV 1998 TRX300FW A - FOURTRAX 300 4X4 CARBURETOR Honda ATV 2000 TRX300 A CARBURETOR Honda ATV 1996 TRX300 A - FOURTRAX 300 CARBURETOR Honda ATV 1997 TRX300 A - FOURTRAX 300 CARBURETOR Honda ATV 1999 TRX300FW A - FOURTRAX 300 4X4 CARBURETOR Honda ATV 1999 TRX300 A - FOURTRAX 300 CARBURETOR Honda ATV 2000 TRX300FW A - FOURTRAX 300 CARBURETOR Honda ATV 1997 TRX300FW AN - FOURTRAX 300 4X4 CARBURETOR Honda ATV 1997 TRX300FW A - FOURTRAX 300 4X4 CARBURETOR Honda ATV 1997 TRX300 AN - FOURTRAX 300 CARBURETOR Honda ATV 1996 TRX300FW AN - FOURTRAX 300 4X4 CARBURETOR Honda ATV 1996 TRX300 AN - FOURTRAX 300 CARBURETOR This is the carb that ran successfully on my 450 for several years before something started having issues. I have to presume it had been rejetted. I can attest a Shindy 450 rebuild kit went right in to the thing. I'll take a look at the old jets, but I think my friend had rebuilt it at some point, but hte jets were dark brass...so they weren't new by any stretch. Edited July 15, 2020 by 87Iroc Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
87Iroc 344 Posted July 15, 2020 (edited) Rebuilt Honda carb shows no improvement. I have tweaked screw in and out trying to find a better spot but nothing from 3/4 to 4 or 5 turns out matters much. Runs better at some than others but am going to keep tweaking. Will keep trying. I have a second attempt at an IV bottle rigged up. Will try that a bit later to take tank out. note in video it idles like that for 10-15 seconds and dies. If I give it any gas it dies Edited July 15, 2020 by 87Iroc Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fishfiles 20,145 Posted July 15, 2020 After listening to your video , I doubt the carb is going to clear up all that engine noise , sounds like a bent valve , or a bent rod Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shadetree 5,867 Posted July 15, 2020 agreed with fish ^^^^, that motor sounds like crap ! ( thats a clean way of saying it ! ..lol ), ditch the fuel filter, dont need it. petcock in the right position ?. i hear all kinds of motor sounds that are wrong !..lol. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fishfiles 20,145 Posted July 15, 2020 is that a line on the cam Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
87Iroc 344 Posted July 15, 2020 (edited) Are you talking about notch in end of cam or what looks like a blue line on sprocket? Oh. Maybe line in notch on cam? Might be. I don’t know Edited July 15, 2020 by 87Iroc Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shadetree 5,867 Posted July 15, 2020 man...when your done pulling your hair out ?, load it up, drive down here, i'll fix it..lol. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
87Iroc 344 Posted July 15, 2020 I’m about 1400 in to a 2000 dollar quad right now. The thought of parting it out has crossed my mind. I looked for line in cam. I have pics it appears in and others it don’t. As we started with timing I have a bunch of pics of nose. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shadetree 5,867 Posted July 15, 2020 Just now, 87Iroc said: I’m about 1400 in to a 2000 dollar quad right now. The thought of parting it out has crossed my mind. I looked for line in cam. I have pics it appears in and others it don’t. As we started with timing I have a bunch of pics of nose. your cam timing is right. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
87Iroc 344 Posted July 15, 2020 Here’s one wher it looks neon. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
87Iroc 344 Posted July 15, 2020 1 minute ago, shadetree said: your cam timing is right. There’s always that positive! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shadetree 5,867 Posted July 15, 2020 1 minute ago, 87Iroc said: There’s always that positive! but from the sounds of that motor ?, you got issues with the valves, rod, who knows ?, what i do know is ?..your motor is not right !. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
