Carl 2 Posted September 30, 2020 1 minute ago, jeepwm69 said: OK. But you ignore the fact that if you need it, it won't work. Doesn't really matter if it works now or not. Even if you have it where it will work "fine with one or two pulls" sitting in your driveway with a fully charged battery, if you actually NEED it, it's not going to work. You appear to be correct. All I can do at this point is haul it down to the Honda dealer and let them waste a lot of time tracing circuitry and spark at the plug, only to tell me that everything's working fine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oh400ex 629 Posted September 30, 2020 56 minutes ago, Carl said: That's a good strategy. it's a lot wiser than those people who have been commenting and telling me how hard it is to start with a pull start and therefore I shouldn't use it to begin with. I don't need their kind of "help". Sounds like you are talking about me and my actual helpful info you apparently didn't appreciate. Whether or not you agree with the statement... you can take someone's perspective as an experience different from yours. Good luck with that sort of attitude. I'm sure you make more than this more difficult than it has to be... 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeepwm69 7,611 Posted September 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, Carl said: You appear to be correct. All I can do at this point is haul it down to the Honda dealer and let them waste a lot of time tracing circuitry and spark at the plug, only to tell me that everything's working fine. @Melatv is the EFI machine electrical guru. He might be able to help you out, but were it mine, I think I'd cut my losses on the recoil and get a booster pack. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fishfiles 20,145 Posted September 30, 2020 I am not a recoil start 420 kind of guy , I have a couple of 450s with recoil start and they are hard to start with the recoil start , but that really don't matter on this problem something I did kind of pick up on is : " it started fine for a couple of months with the pull start and now it don't " , so I would think the only way someone would be pulling the pull start to start it is , if the battery was not strong enough to start it or there is another problem , I know I have heard so many times that running a atv with a bad battery is the worst thing you can do to the electrical system as it will burn out the stator or other electrical parts , so maybe it took out the cdi or stator ----then you have all the extra parts to make the pull start work , maybe there is a problem in the kit itself now from having had a low voltage situation Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TBRider 1,407 Posted September 30, 2020 Could you Maybe answer my first question, what came with your kit and was it from a dealer? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carl 2 Posted September 30, 2020 15 minutes ago, TBRider said: Could you Maybe answer my first question, what came with your kit and was it from a dealer? Sorry, I thought I did. It came with the recoil mechanical starter mechanism (and it's bolts) that bolts onto the flywheel, a new flange bolt that goes into the flywheel, an oil seal, a washer, and a capacitor that plugs directly in to an existing harness in the battery tray. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
_Wilson_™ 6,567 Posted September 30, 2020 exactly , fish... electrical... just as i figured.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Goober 1,555 Posted September 30, 2020 (edited) When was this quad last serviced? I’d want to load test the battery, put in fresh high octane fuel, clean the air filter, maybe put a new plug in it. See if that helps i see new battery and plug Edited September 30, 2020 by Goober Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carl 2 Posted September 30, 2020 All this was done three weeks ago. The fuel is fresh and treated with stabilizer. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeepwm69 7,611 Posted September 30, 2020 2 hours ago, Fishfiles said: I am not a recoil start 420 kind of guy , I have a couple of 450s with recoil start and they are hard to start with the recoil start , but that really don't matter on this problem something I did kind of pick up on is : " it started fine for a couple of months with the pull start and now it don't " , so I would think the only way someone would be pulling the pull start to start it is , if the battery was not strong enough to start it or there is another problem , I know I have heard so many times that running a atv with a bad battery is the worst thing you can do to the electrical system as it will burn out the stator or other electrical parts , so maybe it took out the cdi or stator ----then you have all the extra parts to make the pull start work , maybe there is a problem in the kit itself now from having had a low voltage situation I would think even if the capacitor was junk, it's hooked to the battery, and if the electric start is working the battery is obviously good, so the voltage should be there to fire it. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fishfiles 20,145 Posted September 30, 2020 1 minute ago, jeepwm69 said: I would think even if the capacitor was junk, it's hooked to the battery, and if the electric start is working the battery is obviously good, so the voltage should be there to fire it. Good theory ^^^^ did I do a drive by again , sure enough , looked back in the beginning and see " the electric start works " ??? When I searched that recoil kit , I seen there are quite a few different recoil kits out there , wonder what all has to happen in the wiring to make it start Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carl 2 Posted September 30, 2020 mine just uses a capacitor hooked into the electrical harness everything else is straight mechanical. there is 13.5 volts getting to the capacitor and it charges. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TBRider 1,407 Posted October 1, 2020 This is a thinker, because your f.i.would be powered by the battery when the key is turned on the cap is not needed, does it do it when the bike is just cold or have you tried it when hot? I'm thinking when cold and oil is thicker the motor isn't spinning quick enough? Just a few ideas..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carl 2 Posted October 1, 2020 Engine temperature doesn't seem to affect the problem, but time does. At one point last week, I let the ATV sit for 5 days in my garage ( daytime OAT approx 75° max), and the recoil starter ignited the engine with only a few easy pulls. A hour later, I even discharged the capacitor to ground,. waited a hour, and the recoil starter did his job fine. But thereafter if I try to start it within a hour, or even a day or two, he's cannot ignite the engine. I stripped off the engine cowling and checked every inch of wiring and connectors for damage or looseness. There weren't none no how. I've been searching online for an electrical wiring schematic for this 2019 Honda four Trx 4X4, but I just can't hardly find one to no how. I found one for a 2007, But the online diagram truncated at the point where the lead from the capacitor joined in to the rest of the chassis wiring. "You jes' cane-t hardly win ". 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Goober 1,555 Posted October 1, 2020 If you want a schematic, Your owner’s manual should list the service manual number, maybe 61HR307? heres one https://www.ebay.com/itm/383668494149 maybe it’s fuel pressure-related and flooding it?. You say it doesn’t like to start after a shorter interval over longer? Is there a way to relieve fuel pressure? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carl 2 Posted October 1, 2020 48 minutes ago, Goober said: If you want a schematic, Your owner’s manual should list the service manual number, maybe 61HR307? heres one https://www.ebay.com/itm/383668494149 maybe it’s fuel pressure-related and flooding it?. You say it doesn’t like to start after a shorter interval over longer? Is there a way to relieve fuel pressure? thanks for the info about the manual but it predates my ATV by 5 years. I don't believe there's any flooding because the ATV starts instantly when I use the electric starter no matter how many times I've pulled previously on the recoil. I will test for spark at the plug gap when it's dark tonight. if I get a spark, then maybe there's not enough residual current to crank the fuel pump or ignite the fuel injector. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Goober 1,555 Posted October 1, 2020 33 minutes ago, Carl said: thanks for the info about the manual but it predates my ATV by 5 years. It’s 2014-2019–should include your 2019 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
_Wilson_™ 6,567 Posted October 1, 2020 says FM1 too... which i believe is your model according to the original post. i take your going to check for a spark using the pull starter ?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carl 2 Posted October 1, 2020 4 minutes ago, _Wilson_™ said: says FM1 too... which i believe is your model according to the original post. i take your going to check for a spark using the pull starter ?? That's correct. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carl 2 Posted October 1, 2020 59 minutes ago, Carl said: thanks for the info about the manual but it predates my ATV by 5 years. I don't believe there's any flooding because the ATV starts instantly when I use the electric starter no matter how many times I've pulled previously on the recoil. I will test for spark at the plug gap when it's dark tonight. if I get a spark, then maybe there's not enough residual current to crank the fuel pump or ignite the fuel injector. Thanks for the Honda 420 service manual listing on eBay. I missed the fact that it's 2014 through 2020, but with that straightened out, I went ahead and ordered one. I appreciate the tip; that should make life a lot easier now, Have a great day ! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites