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Carl

Recoil starter on 2019 Honda TRX420FM1K

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New Honda recoil starter unit installed on 2019 Honda TRX420FM1K according to Honda instructions.   After only 4 months, recoil pull will not start engine.  Battery is topped up.  12 volts is present at the 2 pin connecter to the condenser (capacitor).  Sometimes the recoil works, but most of time it won't start the engine.  No damage, no water flooding. Electrical starter works fine.  I have cleaned all elec. connections.

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57 minutes ago, Carl said:

New Honda recoil starter unit installed on 2019 Honda TRX420FM1K according to Honda instructions.   After only 4 months, recoil pull will not start engine.  Battery is topped up.  12 volts is present at the 2 pin connecter to the condenser (capacitor).  Sometimes the recoil works, but most of time it won't start the engine.  No damage, no water flooding. Electrical starter works fine.  I have cleaned all elec. connections.

 

Welcome!

 

Most folks will post an introduction and tell us a bit about themselves and their Honda. Feel free to do that when you get a chance!

Here is a link to download your Honda service manual as well. All the information you need is in this PDF.

 

Sounds to me like the bike is just not running perfectly if it will easily start with electric but not with pull.

 

Few questions,

Why are you pull starting it to know that it is hard in the first place?

How old is the battery and what issues have you had surrounding the electrical system?

 

Have you done any adjustment to the idle screw?

 

Sometimes they are difficult to pull start if the idle is set a bit low.

If it has low idle... try raising it and see if the pull start is easier.

 

Let us know how it goes!

 

Edit: Few other things you can do to help with start are new air filter, oil change and most importantly Iridium spark plug upgrade.

The NGK iridium plugs will give you longer life and better starts and the cost of some hard-earned dollars. Valve adjustment may also help with easy start. Read that service manual! 😂

Edited by oh400ex

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14 minutes ago, oh400ex said:

 

Welcome!

 

Most folks will post an introduction and tell us a bit about themselves and their Honda. Feel free to do that when you get a chance!

Here is a link to download your Honda service manual as well. All the information you need is in this PDF.

 

Sounds to me like the bike is just not running perfectly if it will easily start with electric but not with pull.

 

Few questions,

Why are you pull starting it to know that it is hard in the first place?

How old is the battery and what issues have you had surrounding the electrical system?

 

Have you done any adjustment to the idle screw?

 

Sometimes they are difficult to pull start if the idle is set a bit low.

If it has low idle... try raising it and see if the pull start is easier.

 

Let us know how it goes!

 

Edit: Few other things you can do to help with start are new air filter, oil change and most importantly Iridium spark plug upgrade.

The NGK iridium plugs will give you longer life and better starts and the cost of some hard-earned dollars.

the battery is new and it's putting out 13.5 volts.

  I pull started to make sure it will start in preparation for my field trip.   The spark plugs are stock Honda plugs and they're new. it's a new bike I've only had it since June 2nd bought new in the crate from the dealer. the idol is stable and seems to be right where it belongs.

 

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5 minutes ago, Carl said:

the battery is new and it's putting out 13.5 volts.

  I pull started to make sure it will start in preparation for my field trip.   The spark plugs are stock Honda plugs and they're new. it's a new bike I've only had it since June 2nd bought new in the crate from the dealer. the idol is stable and seems to be right where it belongs.

 

Ok. I'm gonna guess your elbow isn't pulling as hard as it used to or you got some bad gas. Clean your air filter if you haven't.

Iridium upgrade is just the exact same plug but longer lasting and may give a slight edge. Not needed by any stretch.

 

Maybe try the idle thing and see if that makes a difference in ease-of-start purposes. You can change it right back if not needed.

Also can try just slightly opening the choke before a pull (Even when hot)

Pull technique is really important. Pull slowly until right past the hard compression then jerk is my method.

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@Carl have verified a constant spark ? take the spark plug out, ground it against the engine ... and check for a spark... might also check the kill switch ... 

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agreed ^^^ 

 

7 hours ago, Carl said:

After only 4 months, recoil pull will not start engine.

 

so it failed after four months, OR the pull starter is not working, (or hard to pull ) .. like it should ?  sounds more like an electrical issue related to a signal.... to the fuel injection, circuit... and i take it .... you meant a 2019 fm1-ac ? because there is not a k..... I'm not a rancher guy ... but after reading the post .. that's what i get ...so.... it starts fine with the starter ... but part time with the pull starter ? ...  I'd speek with @Melatv

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7 hours ago, oh400ex said:

 

Welcome!

 

Most folks will post an introduction and tell us a bit about themselves and their Honda. Feel free to do that when you get a chance!

Here is a link to download your Honda service manual as well. All the information you need is in this PDF.

 

Sounds to me like the bike is just not running perfectly if it will easily start with electric but not with pull.

 

Few questions,

Why are you pull starting it to know that it is hard in the first place?

How old is the battery and what issues have you had surrounding the electrical system?

 

Have you done any adjustment to the idle screw?

 

Sometimes they are difficult to pull start if the idle is set a bit low.

If it has low idle... try raising it and see if the pull start is easier.

 

Let us know how it goes!

 

Edit: Few other things you can do to help with start are new air filter, oil change and most importantly Iridium spark plug upgrade.

The NGK iridium plugs will give you longer life and better starts and the cost of some hard-earned dollars. Valve adjustment may also help with easy start. Read that service manual! 😂

there is no idle screw on a trx420, they are fuel injected !..lol.

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I would say the K in the model number  indicates 2019 ----I just looked at a new unused Honda pull start kit on e-bay for $39 , Partzilla list he same kit at $130 , looks like a good deal if someone wanted one 

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not pulling hard/fast enough ?, or the sub-harness that hooks to the pull starter does not have a good tight connection ?.

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Exactly fish, there is more than just the recoil on the new bikes.

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2 hours ago, shadetree said:

there is no idle screw on a trx420, they are fuel injected !..lol.

 

Whoops 😅

Yeah no screw on that one. Computer controlled idle then...

 

Pull hard with good technique and maintain everything well. Iridium spark plug and clean air filter may make all the difference for you.

Likely there is nothing really wrong here. Electrical problem IMO is not likely. Pull start is difficult and only ever meant to be used as a backup anyway.

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I use my pull start every other time just to keep it moving......

2 hours ago, oh400ex said:

 Pull start is difficult and only ever meant to be used as a backup anyway.

 

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11 minutes ago, TBRider said:

I use my pull start every other time just to keep it moving......

 

That's a good strategy. it's a lot wiser than those people who have been commenting and telling me how hard it is to start with a pull start and therefore I shouldn't use it to begin with. I don't need their kind of "help".

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Pull starting the Rincons, newer 500's is tough.  You gotta get it on just the right spot when you start pulling.

 

I just carry a booster pack.

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That is absolute nonsense. This pull starter was working fine one or two pulls for months and then just stopped working.

I also have another Honda ATV (a 2005) that still starts on the first pull of the recoil after 15 years

 

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And a 2005 would be carb'd without all the EFI electronics that produce your spark and fuel.  EFI machines are MUCH harder to pull start, and Honda doesn't even put them on their EFI machines in the US. 

 

For those of us who have been on the forums for years, we've seen a lot of the "recoil doesn't work on my XXXX (efi) machine." 

 

But what do we know.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, jeepwm69 said:

And a 2005 would be carb'd without all the EFI electronics that produce your spark and fuel.  EFI machines are MUCH harder to pull start, and Honda doesn't even put them on their EFI machines in the US. 

 

For those of us who have been on the forums for years, we've seen a lot of the "recoil doesn't work on my XXXX (efi) machine." 

 

But what do we know.

 

 

 

 

 

 

You're wrong about that; go talk to a Honda dealer.   Or better yet, go to Honda's website and build a new EFI 4x4 rancher to your own specs.  You certainly can order an EFI model with a pull start on it. I have one.  Try to get your facts straight before commenting

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8 minutes ago, Carl said:

You're wrong about that; go talk to a Honda dealer.   Or better yet, go to Honda's website and build a new EFI 4x4 rancher to your own specs.  You certainly can order an EFI model with a pull start on it. I have one.  Try to get your facts straight before commenting

 

How many Hondas do you own?  I probably have 30 at the moment.  I've rebuild a half dozen 420's down to the crank over the last few years.  NONE have had a recoil.

 

The EFI machines do NOT come standard with a pull start in the US.  Yes, you can "order" one, but unless you special order one, they do not come with a recoil, with the exception of the Rincon.

 

Number 2 in this schematic is what comes from the factory.

 

https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/honda/atv/2017/trx420fm1-2ac/rear-crankcase-cover

 

You might want to do a little research before you go shooting off at the mouth.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Pull start on a TRX420 will not start the bike if the battery is dead or disconnected -- so carry a booster pack.

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7 hours ago, _Wilson_™ said:

agreed ^^^ 

 

 

so it failed after four months, OR the pull starter is not working, (or hard to pull ) .. like it should ?  sounds more like an electrical issue related to a signal.... to the fuel injection, circuit... and i take it .... you meant a 2019 fm1-ac ? because there is not a k..... I'm not a rancher guy ... but after reading the post .. that's what i get ...so.... it starts fine with the starter ... but part time with the pull starter ? ...  I'd speek with @Melatv

 

@Melatv looked into adding the optional recoil, and said

 

I have did some testing on my TRX 420 -- This is what I have found as soon as the key is turn on the console lamps discharged the condenser right a way, before I could pull the pull start.
Also check the the system out and found that the condenser has to power the following.
Engine stop relay
Fuel pump relay to start fuel pump
Fuel injector
Ignition coil
Light up console lamps

Well with all the above having to be power up by that condenser it is just a joke. Like the installation for pull start kit states to be use only when battery is low. One would have to have one big condenser bank to power all that is needed to start the my ATV.

 

 

 

So basically if your battery is really dead or low, the pull start is useless.  Too many things requiring power for the EFI machines to run.

 

That said, this new guy claims his battery is fully charged, so would think it would start with the pull start.  Will be worthless if he actually needs it, but just to have to start his machine the hard way while sitting at home, it should work, right?

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6 minutes ago, jeepwm69 said:

 

How many Hondas do you own?  I probably have 30 at the moment.  I've rebuild a half dozen 420's down to the crank over the last few years.  NONE have had a recoil.

 

The EFI machines do NOT come standard with a pull start in the US.  Yes, you can "order" one, but unless you special order one, they do not come with a recoil, with the exception of the Rincon.

 

Number 2 in this schematic is what comes from the factory.

 

https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/honda/atv/2017/trx420fm1-2ac/rear-crankcase-cover

 

You might want to do a little research before you go shooting off at the mouth.

 

 

 

 

 

 

If all you can do is use nasty language and make foolish accusations like "shooting your mouth off" stay off the comment site. Besides which you just contradicted yourself.

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7 minutes ago, jeepwm69 said:

 

@Melatv looked into adding the optional recoil, and said

 

I have did some testing on my TRX 420 -- This is what I have found as soon as the key is turn on the console lamps discharged the condenser right a way, before I could pull the pull start.
Also check the the system out and found that the condenser has to power the following.
Engine stop relay
Fuel pump relay to start fuel pump
Fuel injector
Ignition coil
Light up console lamps

Well with all the above having to be power up by that condenser it is just a joke. Like the installation for pull start kit states to be use only when battery is low. One would have to have one big condenser bank to power all that is needed to start the my ATV.

 

 

 

So basically if your battery is really dead or low, the pull start is useless.  Too many things requiring power for the EFI machines to run.

 

That said, this new guy claims his battery is fully charged, so would think it would start with the pull start.  Will be worthless if he actually needs it, but just to have to start his machine the hard way while sitting at home, it should work, right?

Thanks for the info about all the power that the condenser has to supply to the ATVs electrical system.   But still, the pull start was working fine with one or two pulls for four months.  Thanks for your help.

 

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1 minute ago, Carl said:

Thanks for the info about all the power that the condenser has to supply to the ATVs electrical system.   But still, the pull start was working fine with one or two pulls for four months.  Thanks for your help.

 

 

OK.  But you ignore the fact that if you need it, it won't work.  Doesn't really matter if it works now or not. 

 

Even if you have it where it will work "fine with one or two pulls" sitting in your driveway with a fully charged battery, if you actually NEED it, it's not going to work.

 

 

 

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