jeepwm69

Got clutch puller yesterday, so back to work.

Symptoms of this one was locked up shifter.  Wouldn’t shift up or down.  I expected sub transmission problems but didn’t find anything out of the ordinary there, and it still wouldn’t shift with the sub transmission removed.

So this morning I got the clutch off and started looking at the shifting mechanism and it appears to shift now…..plan was to split cases and I think I still will given that I’m this far in, but is it possible the shift mechanism was just jammed up?  Don’t know if anyone other than @shadetree here has any experience with these.

I did notice that when in is what I presume is neutral, this shaft will spin a bit in either direction, but then stops.  Wondering if that might be my problem.

3 hours ago, jcz said:

I have an 88 trx 300 that I'm working on with no spark. If we determine it is the CDI will the one from Ricks work? I have read differing reviews. The 88 model supposedly was a one off year. Anyone with experience with this year? 

It is my understanding that Rick’s makes a 1st gen CDI that should work 88-92.  You should confirm that with Ricks though

Thanks for sharing that.  Will have to watch the whole thing later, but love the old "this is how it works" videos!

14 hours ago, Bossdaddy said:

OK guys, I'll save up my money and buy one from Honda. Thanks

Rick's are good as well, and usually cheaper than OEM.  Just make sure you buy it from Rick's, as there are lots of fake china crap CDI's out there advertised as Rick's.

https://ricksmotorsportelectrics.com/Hot-Shot-Series-Honda-CDI-Box-15_605

Wonder if the regulator is shot?   That's what I usually see when a battery is being drained anyhow.

I'll try measuring for drain, and see what I find.  Fuse box looks brand freaking new, no corrosion or signs of heat at all there. 

I have a good battery I can slap on there.  The battery on the machine was low when I picked it up, so it is likely near the end of its useful life.

Coil is hot to the touch after I tried to crank it

Battery is still at 12.31 V and I’ve had it connected to a tender

7 hours ago, retro said:

Ok then, after you check the initial voltage at the coil as described above, try checking the peak voltage at the coil while connecting the red PVA lead to the Green/yellow terminal and the black PVA lead on the Red/black terminal. Let me know those results.

It started off at like -.8 and it has been dropping the longer it’s connected to where it is now down to -.15 and still dropping, but the drop off rate has slowed the longer it is connected

Almost stopped at -.13

8 hours ago, retro said:

2013 Foreman might have seen a major change in the ignition circuit ECM/PCM, as the 420 Ranchers wiring are entirely different from the Foreman models and the 2012 Foreman wiring differs from the 2014 foreman wiring. I don't have a 2013 diagram for reference, so lets try something, see if we can find out which manual to use for reference....

 

Using your multimeter, key turned on, measure DC volts with the red meter lead on the coil Green/yellow terminal and the black meter lead on the Red/black terminal. Is there positive (+) battery voltage? If so what is the measurement?

 

Then swap your meter leads so the red lead is on the Red/black coil terminal and black lead is on the Green/yellow terminal. Is there positive (+) battery voltage? If so what is the measurement?

-11.24

11.24

IIRC the "spark when you let off of the button" is the sign of a dead/dying CDI AND the 1996 CDI's are the ones that are crappy one year thing.  That right @shadetree?

Haven't ever seen any like that.  Interesting!

11 minutes ago, rich250rracer said:

It had a TPS code on start up, sometimes. Sorry can’t get more clear than that. But after unplugging, inspecting, and cleaning the connections at the ECU the first time I had it unplugged, I have not gotten a TPS code since. 

I rode my 06 around for a bit with the TPS code blinking.  Never caused any problems other than the annoying blinking on the dash.

1 hour ago, AKATV said:

Really late to the party on this one - grandkids were here for a week

Heres a shot in the dark

We had an 07 Foreman 500 (non PS) a few years back we went crazy with the same symptoms- dropping spark when hot

finally after all the same troubleshooting and swapping I decided to pull sparkplug boot off when it was hot and not sparking, it sparked from end of wire, put boot back on and no spark- replaced boot and its still working to this day.

Not sure if it was OEM boot on there but know we replaced it with OEM (yellow)

Might be worth checking out? I sure sure you have swapped sparkplugs at this point

-AKATV

Spark plug and coil were the first things he replaced....this one is a stumper for sure!

I'll try that after work.

2012-2013 use the same wiring harness, ECU, and coil.  The 2012-2013 Foreman was a bit of a "transition model" and that model was a two year only run until the "new body style" Foreman came out in 2014.

13 minutes ago, retro said:

 

The battery is low, should be 12.6 volts or higher. The 7/10s of a volt drop (from 12.41 across the battery) at the Red/Black coil terminal is a problem though. Check fuse sockets for overheating and unplug/plug back in harness connectors in case there is a bad connection. Also check the handlebar kill switch, there should be battery voltage coming out of it.... it's a black/white wire if i remember right. The grounds are good right?

i haven’t checked grounds.  Probably should.  This machine looks new, like it’s never been in the mud, and has been stored inside.  No corrosion anywhere on it (at least that I can see) but I’m going to have to check everything obviously.

It is normal for the decompressor to flop like that.  It is not normal for an engine to sound like that.

@toodeep, any ideas?  Sounds like valves or piston slap to me.

6 hours ago, shadetree said:

just guessing here, but would the oil temp sensor cause this on this atv ?.

I don’t think so. I’ve had one of these with a bad fan control module so the sensor was taken out of the loop and it ran fine

19 hours ago, retro said:

 

I'm not buying that... I don't trust the manuals either because there is conflicting info (error) between the two that I am using. So lets back up a bit and ignore the manuals for now...

 

Does the fuel pump run when you turn the key on?

 

With the coil plugged in and the ignition switch on, using your multimeter measure DC volts between the Red/Black coil terminal and ground. There should be battery voltage (12.5v or greater).

 

Then move your Red multimeter lead from the Red/Black terminal to the Green/Yellow terminal on the coil and measure again (black meter lead on ground). Let me know if you measure any voltage.

 

EDIT: FYI, I am using the 2012 Foreman and the 2014-2016 Foreman manuals. I don't trust either of them.

EDIT 2: I am helping my daughter babysit for two babies, nightmare babies actually. I'll try to check in often but if I'm awol for a while that just means I'm preparing a rocket for a low orbit launch..... be back asap.

Fuel pump Clicks on

Battery shows 11.7 V at the coil, 12.41 V directly off the battery

.26 V on the green yellow

Got a message from Rich last night.  He bypassed the PS module, said it still dropped spark after a half hour of running, 25 degrees out.

So OEM ECU, regulator, coil, stator have been installed.  Still dropping spark when hot. 
 

@rich250rracer did you try cleaning up the grounds?  I assume you’ve replaced the spark plug, but just to clarify, new NGK plug?

@retro and other ideas?  Ignition off/on/off  switch on the handlebar maybe?

4 hours ago, retro said:

Yep the CKP sensor peak voltage is good all the way to the ECU. With the coil plugged in there is not 100v or more peak voltage while cranking though, so it possibly has a bad PCM/ECU? I'll have to study the wiring a bit...

That’s my concern, when the coil wire melted onto the exhaust it blew the ignition fuse.

I replaced the fuse and when I turned the key on the coil started smoking but the ignition fuse did not blow again.  
 

i’m wondering if that fried that ECU

Hooked up + to blue and yellow wire coming off of CKP, negative to green coming off of CKP.  I took the measurement off of the round plug, engine side, so it was unplugged when I did that test. Is that correct?

When cranking got 6.2 volts. 
 

got the same thing (6.2V) at the gray connector for the ECU when cranking, with stator/CKP plugged back into main harness

Just now, [email protected] said:

The shift motor tested good, There seems to be a mechanical obstruction when the shift motor is installed. Is there a linkage behind the front crankcase cover?

Gears under the shift motor look ok?   The gears turn the shaft that the emergency shifter turns, so not really a linkage back there.   If the emergency shifter goes through all the gears ok, I'd be closely examining the gears and bearings under the shift motor.

Looking at schematics, on the regular FM, the blue/yellow wire goes from CKP sensor directly to ECU.

On the PS models, that blue/yellow goes to the power steering module, then a violet/white wire comes out of the power steering module and goes to the same spot on the ECU that the Blue/yellow wire goes on the non-PS model.

The ECU is the same part for both machines.  Engine (and thus CKP) is also the same on both models.

So it is safe to say that if he bypasses the power steering module, running the blue/yellow wire straight from CKP to the ECU, that would reveal if the problem is in the power steering module?

He tried his ECU with my regulator, my ECU with his regulator, my ECU with my regulator, and his ECU with his regulator.  Same problem.  Loses spark when it warms up.

So, good regulator (off my wife's Rubicon, don't tell her!) was sent and he still has same result.  

On a model with conventional steering, both wires from the stator pick up go to the ECU. On a power steering model, the blue and yellow wire from the stator goes to the power steering module. I wonder if I take that wire out of the plug and run it directly to the ECU if that will help with diagnosing the problem. Not sure if that’s going to bypass the PS correctly, since a lot it other stuff feeds into that PS module.

@retro you have any ideas on this one?  You know electrical isn't my forte

Got very little done this morning.  Discovered the clutch nut is a weirdo and had to order a special tool for it.  Dang JIS screws everywhere on this engine instead of regular hex head bolts!

I also have discovered that there are no rings in stock anywhere for this machine.  Plan was to hone the cylinder and put new rings on it while I had it apart.