Jump to content
Rgifford123

No speedometer and no es

Recommended Posts

So I have an 02 rancher it sat for at least 6 years i threw a new carb on it and it runs great but I cannot figure out how to get the speedometer to work it always reads 0 it shifts fine as long as I do t go faster than mayb 10mph I'm guess cuz it doesn't actually say... but then it stops shifting and will only shift if you turn the key off then back on. I've replaced the speed sensor and angle sensor and still nothing. I need help I have no idea what else to check.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

Hi Rgifford, welcome to ATVHonda! Did you put genuine Honda parts on it, or china knockoffs from ebay/amazon? Gotta ask because china parts won't work.

 

EDIT: Did the ES work when the Rancher was parked 6 years ago? Do you have the original parts that were replaced? Is there a battery in it that is in good condition?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

I bought honda parts or at least they say they are. i bought online didn't buy the cheap stuff cuz it never works. And honestly idk why it was parked the guy I got it off of said he couldn't remember what was wrong with it he said he just never used it but when I picked it up it did have the shifter pedal on it so I'm assuming it wasn't working then. And the battery is brand new and charged

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Posted (edited)

Have you downloaded the manual?  it has a pretty comprehensive ES trouble shooting flowchart

Heres the link https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1VocUaF1K4_fDh_SVCaq3Rkc747M58ZQd

Your machine has the earlier ECU that just stops ES function if it detects a fault, and resets when you turn off and on

then shuts off again when it detects same fault

I would start with brushing up on ES troubleshooting on 21-2

Then, I would check the combination meter and speed sensor output-see page 20-9

The ECU has to get speed signal from speed sensor or it will shut down ES operation

Sounds like speed sensor might not be working or getting signal to speedo/ECU, if speedometer is reading zero

I would start with that and we can begin eliminating the working parts

Edited by AKATV
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

I bet the grease has gotten gummy in the gears and bearings where the shift motor is. Mine was doing the same last year - cleaned out the old grease and pushed new grease into the little bearings and new grease on the gears and worked like new. I used Mobil 1 synthetic grease. There’s an in depth thread about how to do that plus more by retro. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

I see the speed sensor is no longer available thru Honda , so did you buy a used sensor or some after market part ? -----  did you unplug the speed  sensor  and check the connections of the plug for corrosion ---being it  sat up for so long , I think I would check for mouse damage to the wiring 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

First off welcome to the forum, great place to get your Honda fixed and running well.

 

Second here is retro's thread on properly getting an ES shift system maintained for long term use.

 

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
13 hours ago, AKATV said:

Have you downloaded the manual?  it has a pretty comprehensive ES trouble shooting flowchart

Heres the link https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1VocUaF1K4_fDh_SVCaq3Rkc747M58ZQd

Your machine has the earlier ECU that just stops ES function if it detects a fault, and resets when you turn off and on

then shuts off again when it detects same fault

I would start with brushing up on ES troubleshooting on 21-2

Then, I would check the combination meter and speed sensor output-see page 20-9

The ECU has to get speed signal from speed sensor or it will shut down ES operation

Sounds like speed sensor might not be working or getting signal to speedo/ECU, if speedometer is reading zero

I would start with that and we can begin eliminating the working parts

If I remember correctly, on the old 350's the meter doesn't have to work.  I think it's just a display.

 

@toodeep told me that in some thread long long ago, on a site far far away.

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

Yep, that’s correct, the speedometer’s especially on the older models, is just an output display but it’s also a helpful tool sometimes for diagnosis -i.e. no neutral light or temperature light stays on, etc...

In this case we know the ECU is shutting down ES operation and the speedometer, since it reads zero all the time, might be indicative of the speed sensor going bad.

The ECU will shut down ES operation if it does not receive a speed signal from the speed sensor, so I pointed him in that direction, at least for now

 

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

Thanks for everyone's help and input. I actually did not have the manual but I downloaded it. And it you guys are right it is very helpful. I started tracing wires but I ran out of daylight all my powers and grounds at the front of the 4 wheeler are perfect but where the sensor connects to the 4 wheeler im only getting half a volt so I'm assuming that's not right I traced the wire back to the front and was going to test it but I don't ha e any good test probes so I'll have to bring some home with me tomorrow so I can test the wire to the connector and on from there. I will keep you guys updated if yall have any other tips or thoughts I'll definitely be thankful for it

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

Ok so I finally got a chance to get back out to work on the 4 wheeler. I've wound up testing the wires all the way to the combination meter the wires test fine, and there is no sign of any damage. I've been reading in the manual and it seems as if it has to be between the combination meter or the speed sensor itself but since I've already changed the sensor twice and with supposed honda parts I'm leaning towards the combination meter does this sound right to you guys? I've also tried to check it for codes I can't get it to flash and I've tried the procedure where it says to do push the buttons and all that stuff. I honestly don't know what else to do, but I also don't want to waist any more money on parts so I'm hoping someone on here can tell me if I'm going in the right direction

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

Your model is an older model and does not flash codes

The older model ES systems just shut down the electronic shift when a fault is detected

Turning the machine off and back on with the key will allow it to function until it detects the fault again

Also you can remove the speedometer and drive around the yard just fine it doesn’t stop electronic shifting

It might affect downshifting at higher speeds but my kids are driving one right now that has no speedometer attached

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

Ok that makes sense as to why I never got a code. But I unhooked the speed sensor just right now and it still dd the same thing it will shift perfect until you get over mayb 10mph then its stuck in whatever gear your in. Until you turn the key back off and on

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Posted (edited)

Did you change the grease in the gears and push the old grease out of the bearings and new grease in as suggested?

 

that’s exactly what mine was doing before I did the above as mentioned 

Edited by slowindown

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

I would check your speed sensor signal output as per the manual

Combination meter checks are right on that same page and I would do them just to double check

You might have a bad component somewhere on your meter that might be interrupting speed signal getting to your ECU

I’m just spitballing here but if your speed sensor signal is good your speedometer shouldn’t be reading zero

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

Hey I forgot you mentioned that I actually haven't done that. But honestly I'm not for sure what you mean by that or how to do that. Is there like a grease fitting that your talking about and what bearing? I don't know a whole lot about 4 wheelers now on cars thats a different story.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
34 minutes ago, Rgifford123 said:

Hey I forgot you mentioned that I actually haven't done that. But honestly I'm not for sure what you mean by that or how to do that. Is there like a grease fitting that your talking about and what bearing? I don't know a whole lot about 4 wheelers now on cars thats a different story.

gear transfer case right next to shift motor, a few bolts, then pop the cover off, under it is your transfer gears, this is what you clean out, replace with fresh grease. pay attention to how the gears are installed !.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Rgifford123 said:

Hey I forgot you mentioned that I actually haven't done that. But honestly I'm not for sure what you mean by that or how to do that. Is there like a grease fitting that your talking about and what bearing? I don't know a whole lot about 4 wheelers now on cars thats a different story.

 

There's a wealth of information on the subject in the link bcsman posted above.

 

Here’s a pic of the grease that had turned into tar and made it so the shift motor could barely change a gear.  As I recall, it had gotten to where before I cleaned it I could change maybe a couple of gears and then the shift buttons did nothing until I turned the key off and on.  I often had to use the manual shifter to get it to change.  Be careful when you take the little cover off.  One of my bolts broke - but I think that is rare.  It was very difficult to extract that broken bolt - you can see it left middle of the pic.

 

 

021F56A7-1301-458C-9F66-CEC9315CD870.jpeg

Edited by slowindown
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
On 5/22/2021 at 6:08 AM, slowindown said:

 

There's a wealth of information on the subject in the link bcsman posted above.

 

Here’s a pic of the grease that had turned into tar and made it so the shift motor could barely change a gear.  As I recall, it had gotten to where before I cleaned it I could change maybe a couple of gears and then the shift buttons did nothing until I turned the key off and on.  I often had to use the manual shifter to get it to change.  Be careful when you take the little cover off.  One of my bolts broke - but I think that is rare.  It was very difficult to extract that broken bolt - you can see it left middle of the pic.

 

 

021F56A7-1301-458C-9F66-CEC9315CD870.jpeg

So I cleaned it all out and it was pretty bad but it always shifted before it just would stop shifting and its still doing g the same thing it does seem to shift smoother so I am glad that I did it

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
On 5/21/2021 at 9:23 PM, AKATV said:

I would check your speed sensor signal output as per the manual

Combination meter checks are right on that same page and I would do them just to double check

You might have a bad component somewhere on your meter that might be interrupting speed signal getting to your ECU

I’m just spitballing here but if your speed sensor signal is good your speedometer shouldn’t be reading zero

 

So I checked my voltage to my speed sensor im only getting half a volt and so I assumed  I had a bad wire but I traced it all the way back up to the combination meter and only have .5 volt there is that normal or should I have 12? If its not normal that would mean the combination meter is bad correct?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Posted (edited)

Have you done the  below SPEEDOMETER/SPEED SENSOR SYSTEM INSPECTION on pages 20-9 and 20-10 of the Service manual?

 

image.png

 

image.png

Edited by AKATV
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...