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_Wilson_™

central heat and air

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had something odd happen. i lost ac and air flow from the exchanger (blower / circulating fan) the a/c unit runs fine, but the evap iced over... so i cut the unit off, and left the blower fan on to defrost the evap .... now it's working fine, i just replaced intake filter, and i haven't had any issues till now no doors or windows open, at least not that i know of.... I've went and checked over everything i could ... and can't find a reason why the unit would ice over, the air coming from the vents smells like the inside of a freezer, so i still have the unit off, with just the blower fan running... and the drain is clear, @SlammedRanger any ideas to why this would happen in just a few hours ? I've seen this happen with cabbed equipment.... but not on a house central heat and air system. 

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Low refrigerant can cause this.  Or so I've been told.  I would think excess humidity it the air would cause the evaporator coil to ice up too.  Like waiting until conditions in the home are unbearable before turning on the AC.

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i did think of that but it's back on and running perfect... the inside humidity is 37% cycles off and on like normal.... nice and cold.... i did have another motive behind this, where the heck is slammedranger! 

Edited by _Wilson_™
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I really should refrain from answering because we never use our central air.  I'm too much of a tightwad😳😉.  JK.  Our house is shaded most of the time on a north facing hill so we get the cool breezes coming off the woods behind us.  We do run a 6000 btu window unit in the bedroom.  What's the saying?  When the weather is hot and sticky is no time for dunking dickie but when the frost is upon the pumpkin tis the time for dickie dunking. 😁

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haha! I'm a tightwad to why i ended up with vast fortune ... yeah right.... in my dreams .... sigh.... i have plenty of shade trees, but with a house just a hair under 5000 square feet... (only cool the down stairs) I'm sure that has something to do with the unit going abit nuts on me... but i have temp gauges all over.. and the upstairs never gets higher the 82, plus the attick fans help suck out the heat, running two a/c units would be about 400-500 a month 800 plus in the winter, that's why i had the furness installed, by far the best money (well likely ) i ever spent.... i know one thing, I've got to trim my budget more now then ever..... I'm seeing more $$$ going out then coming in... can't win for loosing.... lol! 

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5 hours ago, _Wilson_™ said:

had something odd happen. i lost ac and air flow from the exchanger (blower / circulating fan) the a/c unit runs fine, but the evap iced over... so i cut the unit off, and left the blower fan on to defrost the evap .... now it's working fine, i just replaced intake filter, and i haven't had any issues till now no doors or windows open, at least not that i know of.... I've went and checked over everything i could ... and can't find a reason why the unit would ice over, the air coming from the vents smells like the inside of a freezer, so i still have the unit off, with just the blower fan running... and the drain is clear, @SlammedRanger any ideas to why this would happen in just a few hours ? I've seen this happen with cabbed equipment.... but not on a house central heat and air system. 

 

This happened to me just the other night for the second time in about 10 years.  I think when a unit (haha) is working hard in damp air sometimes it just happens.  The first time it happened the HVAC guy came out and ran the hose over it for a while.  We had to replace some massive fuse next to the unit (HAHA) as it had burned it out.

Edited by WonderMonkey
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i checked the breakers and fuses... all good, but i sure am baffled, i wish i had taken a few pics of the ice built up on the line going into the house, it had to be ice a  1/8 to an 1/4 inch thick, i just hope the compressor wasn't damaged, it's just plain hard to keep a check on everything all the time, but hopefully... i caught this issue in time, and it's now on my list of things to watch over.... which now has to be about a mile long.... sigh lol! 

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20 minutes ago, _Wilson_™ said:

haha! I'm a tightwad to why i ended up with vast fortune ... yeah right.... in my dreams .... sigh.... i have plenty of shade trees, but with a house just a hair under 5000 square feet... (only cool the down stairs) I'm sure that has something to do with the unit going abit nuts on me... but i have temp gauges all over.. and the upstairs never gets higher the 82, plus the attick fans help suck out the heat, running two a/c units would be about 400-500 a month 800 plus in the winter, that's why i had the furness installed, by far the best money (well likely ) i ever spent.... i know one thing, I've got to trim my budget more now then ever..... I'm seeing more $$$ going out then coming in... can't win for loosing.... lol! 

I understand that.  Prices are just ridiculous lately.  We are going over our expenses and tightening up our spending.   At least I haven't seen a big increase in Glenlivit.😉

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22 minutes ago, 56Sierra said:

I understand that.  Prices are just ridiculous lately.  We are going over our expenses and tightening up our spending.   At least I haven't seen a big increase in Glenlivit.😉

Yet.

 

With the government printing press going full tilt the Weimar Republic is not too far off

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Just had to replace one of  our ac/ heating units , was 12 years old , complete unit  as it's freon was obsolete , new inside air handler /heating strip and the outside coil and compressor ,  5 ton Heil was $6,400 installed , had to go to Mississippi to get it as units  are hard to find right now from what my ac guy said 

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I just had to replace one as well. 11 years old. 

My grandfather installed three phase for his shop and thus had a three phase unit on the house. My AC guy said it would be January  at the earliest before he could get me a three phase unit.  Wait for a compressor was six weeks with no warranty and was about $1300.

 

New single phase unit was $2800, kept my old air handler. 

 

 I have an 80 year old AC guy here who is a whiz. I asked him if I had to change everything out with the new Freon and he laughed and said no.

 

New unit works fine. Old one croaked the Thursday before July 4th

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Wilson, your A coil should not ice up at all. Coil should never reach freezing. Your problem is either air movement past the coil or it's level of refrigerant. Check your filter. If that's clean and blower is normal it's probably refrigerant. Do not use high efficiency filters, they plug too fast and restrict air flow. In spite of the claims of filter manufactures, furnaces are not meant to filter out your household air, the filter is there to protect the blower motor.

 

Also, each refrigerant has a spec for which compressor oil it runs with. You cannot put modern refrigerants in with older non-specified oil or it will eventually wreck your compressor. This was in effect in 2006 when I was doing it and has not changed.

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Sorry guys. Was at disney world with the family all last week. Just got home yesterday and have been in recovery mode lol. Ice on the indoor (evap) coil can be caused by just a few things. Low refrigerant charge/ excessively clogged air filter or air flow restriction of any kind/ or it can happen of the condensate drain clogs. I have had condensate drains clog and un-clog themselves before. But i would bet you are getting lower on refrigerant charge. If you have a txv metering device on your system it is possible to continue to work again for short periods of time or until it gets really hot and humid again and not be able to keep up. My .02

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4 hours ago, PROV said:

Wilson, your A coil should not ice up at all. Coil should never reach freezing. Your problem is either air movement past the coil or it's level of refrigerant. Check your filter. If that's clean and blower is normal it's probably refrigerant. Do not use high efficiency filters, they plug too fast and restrict air flow. In spite of the claims of filter manufactures, furnaces are not meant to filter out your household air, the filter is there to protect the blower motor.

 

Also, each refrigerant has a spec for which compressor oil it runs with. You cannot put modern refrigerants in with older non-specified oil or it will eventually wreck your compressor. This was in effect in 2006 when I was doing it and has not changed.

 

yes sir i understand that..... it has a new filter, I'm not qualified to work on home units, but i know all the mechanics.... but i finally located the issue.... the back door was left open... from my threads you can guess who did this.... sigh.... if this happens again, she will be paying for the repairs!!!

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4 hours ago, SlammedRanger said:

Sorry guys. Was at disney world with the family all last week. Just got home yesterday and have been in recovery mode lol. Ice on the indoor (evap) coil can be caused by just a few things. Low refrigerant charge/ excessively clogged air filter or air flow restriction of any kind/ or it can happen of the condensate drain clogs. I have had condensate drains clog and un-clog themselves before. But i would bet you are getting lower on refrigerant charge. If you have a txv metering device on your system it is possible to continue to work again for short periods of time or until it gets really hot and humid again and not be able to keep up. My .02

 

glad to see you back slammed, and thank you, the drain is clean.... txv metering ? my unit cycles off and on like normal, is only 2 plus years old, but again it's now running fine. 

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2 hours ago, _Wilson_™ said:

 

glad to see you back slammed, and thank you, the drain is clean.... txv metering ? my unit cycles off and on like normal, is only 2 plus years old, but again it's now running fine. 

There are two types of metering devices. So when the refrigerant turns from a gas to a liquid it is metered through a small orifice. There are fixed metering devices called a "piston" or there are "txv" metering devices that are adaptable. So they will be able to make up for under or over charge systems alittle bit. And they can actually adjust when it is required for more or less cooling capacity. So if you have a txv in theory if it required it to open all the way sayinf it was really really hot and humid if it was undercharged it could then freeze up trying to keep up with the exessive heat and humidity.

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3 hours ago, SlammedRanger said:

There are two types of metering devices. So when the refrigerant turns from a gas to a liquid it is metered through a small orifice.

 

Wilson do you have a small orifice?  Just asking for the crowd.

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Anybody here do vehicle AC?  I need a decent set of manifold/gauges that won't break the bank.  I bought one 15 years ago or so at Autozone and it worked ok for a while, but eventually everything started leaking and I tossed them.  I need to get a new set, don't need pro level (or price) but don't want to get Harbor Fright either and have to toss them after one use.

 

I already have a vaccum pump, am working on my 83 GMC climate control and plan on replacing the leaky compressor (R4, bleh) and orifice tube and converting to R134A, but will need gauges to charge when I'm through.

 

This thread hijack is brought to you by early 80's GM products, and AMC era Jeeps.

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. i needed that haha! (high five) slammed are you talking about something like an expansion valve ? on auto equiptment etc systems ? 

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1 hour ago, _Wilson_™ said:

. i needed that haha! (high five) slammed are you talking about something like an expansion valve ? on auto equiptment etc systems ? 

No car a/c's have what is called an accumulator. Probably spelled that wrong lol. But the theory behind that is when the rpm's are spinning super fast it doesnt just get like super crazy cold a/c. Since the compressor on a car is directly effected by engine rpm. A txv is an adjustable metering device. It meters the liquid refrigerant back into the condenser to turn back to a vapor.

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2 hours ago, WonderMonkey said:

 

Wilson do you have a small orifice?  Just asking for the crowd.

 

2 hours ago, jeepwm69 said:

Anybody here do vehicle AC?  I need a decent set of manifold/gauges that won't break the bank.  I bought one 15 years ago or so at Autozone and it worked ok for a while, but eventually everything started leaking and I tossed them.  I need to get a new set, don't need pro level (or price) but don't want to get Harbor Fright either and have to toss them after one use.

 

I already have a vaccum pump, am working on my 83 GMC climate control and plan on replacing the leaky compressor (R4, bleh) and orifice tube and converting to R134A, but will need gauges to charge when I'm through.

 

This thread hijack is brought to you by early 80's GM products, and AMC era Jeeps.

Don't waste your money at Harbor Freight , last year when my Dodge compressor went out I needed a new set of gauges , so bought a set from them , never made one complete fill with it ,  blew an o-ring on the fitting , took it back and got credit --- NAPA was where I got the one I have now from 

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accumulator / dryer ?? gotcha. i can do auto / equipment a/c units.... but this house unit.... nah i won't touch that thing... lol! 

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so far it's running just fine cycling off and on sence yesterday, no ice on the line and plenty of air flow from the vents.... thanks for the advise guys.... just as @PROV said i have seen the evap ice over on farm equipment .... and it's always been a low flow (dust dirt plugged) air filter, when those units get low on freon they tend to cycle off and on in short burst, or just not at all. 

Edited by _Wilson_™
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14 hours ago, WonderMonkey said:

 

Wilson do you have a small orifice?  Just asking for the crowd.

 

14 hours ago, _Wilson_™ said:

@WonderMonkey. i needed that laughter :D  haha! (high five) 

 

this is what i should have typed ^^^ your okay in my book bro, and no I'm not mooning the crowd, lol! last time i did ... i got a citation ..... sigh..... lol! 

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houses are designed wrong for heat an air. vents for cold should be at the top of the house/room, heat at the bottom house/room. [AFM air flow matters.] it could be done. [lets have riots and burn others property, to stress those points.

AFM; AFM; AFM; ya got to carry signs though].

anyway the vents could be returns or delivery...

Edited by LedFTed
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