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TrxPipUK

1992 350D Starting problems

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Hello there, 

So after the last few years of slowly rebuilding my old 350D, I'm at the stage of starting her up. Just so you know, the engine wasn't touched during the build as it supposedly ran previous. Pretty sure she should run though. It turns over nicely and feels like it has good compression (not tested though). 

 

Here's some details: I have spark and I have fuel getting to the carb (carb has been cleaned, but I'm not sure if it's set up properly). The only thing that I can think of that would stop it starting is the carb??🤔 Is there anything else I can check that might not be working even though I have spark? 

Thanks my dudes 🙂

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Put a shot of starter fluid in the air cleaner.  If it fires off for a second you have a fuel delivery problem.  If not you have other issues (compression or timing, if you have spark).

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Immediately after you let off the starter do you hear the fuel pump buzzing for a couple seconds?

if not, then Open the carb drain see if there’s fuel in the bowl. 
you should hear the pump buzzing
 

otherwise do you have a valve stuck open?

Edited by Goober
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gonna go with same as jeep^^, if it wont '' hit '' off a short burst of starting fluid ?, then this is a electrical issue, or compression issue ? ( out of time , or worn cylinder,rings , or like goober said, bent , stuck valve ? ), any of these will give you what your dealing with.

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12 hours ago, Goober said:

Immediately after you let off the starter do you hear the fuel pump buzzing for a couple seconds?

if not, then Open the carb drain see if there’s fuel in the bowl. 
you should hear the pump buzzing
 

otherwise do you have a valve stuck open?

Hey Goober. Yeah I hear the pump buzzing and there is fuel coming out the overflow as I've tried starting her a few times lol. How do I check if a valve is stuck open?

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10 hours ago, shadetree said:

gonna go with same as jeep^^, if it wont '' hit '' off a short burst of starting fluid ?, then this is a electrical issue, or compression issue ? ( out of time , or worn cylinder,rings , or like goober said, bent , stuck valve ? ), any of these will give you what your dealing with.

Pretty sure it's not an electrical issue as everything is working as it should. I could be wrong though lol.

To check for a worn cylinder, rings or a bent/stuck valve I'd need to take the head off? Correct?

Thanks

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10 minutes ago, TrxPipUK said:

Pretty sure it's not an electrical issue as everything is working as it should. I could be wrong though lol.

To check for a worn cylinder, rings or a bent/stuck valve I'd need to take the head off? Correct?

Thanks

take the spark plug out of the cylinder, install plug in boot, lay on engine, turn key on, kill switch in center !, crank it over, watch the spark plug for spark ?. if it sparks ?, then we know its not a ele issue. no, you do not need to pull the head ?, yet !!!. a simple compression tester tool will test for low compression, these models do require a lot more compression to run, and run right !.

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bottom line : if your getting spark at plug the way I told you too check it ^^^^^ ?, then this means your piston is out of time ?, or compression is way off ?, this can be from worn rings ?, worn cylinder ?, bent valve ?, stuck valve ?, most times valves only bend from the cam chain being stretched, and letting the piston smack one of them ?. there is 4 valves on this model, 2 intake, 2 exhaust.

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10 minutes ago, shadetree said:

bottom line : if your getting spark at plug the way I told you too check it ^^^^^ ?, then this means your piston is out of time ?, or compression is way off ?, this can be from worn rings ?, worn cylinder ?, bent valve ?, stuck valve ?, most times valves only bend from the cam chain being stretched, and letting the piston smack one of them ?. there is 4 valves on this model, 2 intake, 2 exhaust.

Yes I'm getting spark. Pulled the plug out last night and tested it in the same way you said to. 

I'll get some starting fluid today and try with that. How would I go about checking if it's out of time, looking for bent/stuck valves or seeing if the rings are worn if that's the problem? 

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Just now, TrxPipUK said:

Yes I'm getting spark. Pulled the plug out last night and tested it in the same way you said to. 

I'll get some starting fluid today and try with that. How would I go about checking if it's out of time, looking for bent/stuck valves or seeing if the rings are worn if that's the problem? 

one step at a time bro !. you need a can of starting fluid or carb cleaner ?. a VERY SMALL BURST ! into the back side of the carb, then try cranking it over, if it '' hits '' ( runs for a sec or two ) ?, then you have a fuel delivery issue. if it does not ?, then your next move will be to check the compression with a compression tester tool.

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4 minutes ago, shadetree said:

one step at a time bro !. you need a can of starting fluid or carb cleaner ?. a VERY SMALL BURST ! into the back side of the carb, then try cranking it over, if it '' hits '' ( runs for a sec or two ) ?, then you have a fuel delivery issue. if it does not ?, then your next move will be to check the compression with a compression tester tool.

Okay thanks man. I'll test with starter fluid later today. I don't have a compression tester, are they all the same if I order one online?

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to check timing , you really need to down load the service manual from here !. but I will type it out here. left side cover, there should be a small cap with a slot in it ?, remove it. inside, behind this is your flywheel, on the very edge of the flywheel is some letters and symbols, your looking for the letter T. remove the spark plug, rotate the crank by removing the larger cap on same left side, it also has a large slot in it, behind it is a 17mm bolt, you will need to turn the crank from this bolt. next step gets alittle deeper.

you must remove the rocker box, this means you will need to remove the air box as well. MAKE SURE YOU HAVE A TUBE OF HONDABOND OR YAMABOND ON HAND ?, YOU WILL NEED IT TO SEAL THE ROCKER BOX BACK UP WHEN DONE !. once the letter T shows in sight hole, cam lobes should be showing face down towards head ?, you now need to look at your cam sprocket, timing marks will look like the ones I posted in my pic here. 

IMG_0749.JPG

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2 minutes ago, TrxPipUK said:

Okay thanks man. I'll test with starter fluid later today. I don't have a compression tester, are they all the same if I order one online?

I do not know if they all are the same ?, I bought mine from sears years ago, it came with all the adapters for different size spark plug holes. I can't remember or not if the spark plugs on these are 17mm or 18mm ( the threads ),  take a spark plug with ya, compare it to the measurements on the kit.

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do not use any kind of RTV sealant on the rocker box !!!!!. it must be yamabond or hondabond !!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

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5 minutes ago, shadetree said:

to check timing , you really need to down load the service manual from here !. but I will type it out here. left side cover, there should be a small cap with a slot in it ?, remove it. inside, behind this is your flywheel, on the very edge of the flywheel is some letters and symbols, your looking for the letter T. remove the spark plug, rotate the crank by removing the larger cap on same left side, it also has a large slot in it, behind it is a 17mm bolt, you will need to turn the crank from this bolt. next step gets alittle deeper.

you must remove the rocker box, this means you will need to remove the air box as well. MAKE SURE YOU HAVE A TUBE OF HONDABOND OR YAMABOND ON HAND ?, YOU WILL NEED IT TO SEAL THE ROCKER BOX BACK UP WHEN DONE !. once the letter T shows in sight hole, cam lobes should be showing face down towards head ?, you now need to look at your cam sprocket, timing marks will look like the ones I posted in my pic here. 

IMG_0749.JPG

Okay thanks for that dude. If I have no luck with the starting fluid I'll get back to you and go from there I guess lol. Thanks for your help, very kind man

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please do not attempt any of my directions above ^^^^^^, until you run a compression test FIRST !!!!. if and when you get your hands on a compression tester kit ?, screwed into spark plug, hold throttle wide open when cranking it over, after a few sec's, look to see what your reading is ?, then post it here.

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1 minute ago, TrxPipUK said:

Okay thanks for that dude. If I have no luck with the starting fluid I'll get back to you and go from there I guess lol. Thanks for your help, very kind man

np, glad I could help ya out here !. again, please try the compression test first, BEFORE you start tearing into the top end !!!. get back to us with your test readings !!!!.

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my memory is older now..lol, but if I am even close to it ?, your looking for over 200 psi ?, I dont have my manual in front of me ?, but I know I am close !. yes..the psi is much higher on these old gals, no clue why ?, but it is !.

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if by a small chance you have to end up taking the top end down to check those timing marks ^^^^^ ?, and your flywheel is sitting on the T, lobes down, and those marks dont line up like they do in my pic ^^^^ ?, then chances are, your cam chain is stretched !!!!!!!!!!!. this means a tear down on right side cover, and a lot of parts must come out..lol.

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sooooooooo..starting fluid is first, no go ?, then compression test, no go ?, then its time to tear the top end down, check timing marks , no go ?, new cam chain is called for, as well as a complete tear down of the top end, I just knowwwwwwwwwww you wanted to read all this huh ?..lol.

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for the record ?, your engine is the same engine I rebuilt on the '88 trx350D foreman 4x4 project here !. that should make you shiver a tad huh ?.lol.

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51 minutes ago, shadetree said:

please do not attempt any of my directions above ^^^^^^, until you run a compression test FIRST !!!!. if and when you get your hands on a compression tester kit ?, screwed into spark plug, hold throttle wide open when cranking it over, after a few sec's, look to see what your reading is ?, then post it here.

Yeah I'll do a compression test first and post it up on here. I'll check the manual for what psi it should be

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42 minutes ago, shadetree said:

sooooooooo..starting fluid is first, no go ?, then compression test, no go ?, then its time to tear the top end down, check timing marks , no go ?, new cam chain is called for, as well as a complete tear down of the top end, I just knowwwwwwwwwww you wanted to read all this huh ?..lol.

Oh dear hahah. Well if it comes to tearing the top end down I'll do it lol. It'll just be a pain in the butt. I wouldn't need to take any side covers off or mess with the bottom end would I? I really hope not lol

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1 minute ago, TrxPipUK said:

Oh dear hahah. Well if it comes to tearing the top end down I'll do it lol. It'll just be a pain in the butt. I wouldn't need to take any side covers off or mess with the bottom end would I? I really hope not lol

if the cam chain is stretched ?, then YES, you will need to remove the right side cover in order to replace the cam chain, which means..removing lots of parts to change the chain out...lol.

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