1992 350D Starting problems

[TrxPipUK 169]

27 minutes ago, Goober said:

The manual says to turn the flywheel in clockwise direction; hard for me to believe this is the first anyone has heard of this editing error.
 @TrxPipUK can you tell us if this is a counter-rotating flywheel? Pop the flywheel cover and pull starter gears. Does the flywheel turn opposite of bottom end?

Hard to believe but it is true.. All I can tell you is that when I turn the engine over with the kicker the flywheel is turning counterclockwise! 100% sure of this, have seen it with my own eyes lol. Not going to take the side off sorry, don't quite have the time to experiment and I am now happy with the engine. It is peculiar as to why the manual is wrong.. but there we go.

 

Thanks Goober 

[Goober 1,555]

thanks. no I don’t mean the side cover—just the starter gear cover. 

Still, I think you’ve demonstrated that the flywheel counter-rotates.
I don’t yet think the manual has been proven to be incorrect. 

 

[Fishfiles 20,145]

I have found a dozen things wrong in the 300 Clymer Manual , so I wouldn't doubt an error .

[_Wilson_™ 6,567]

again the oem service manual says turn it clockwise from the flywheel bolt  ...(not proven wrong yet yet)  the one I'd like input from is shadetree . i would think he's the formost expert on these models, along with goober. besides these facts, according to page 22 you had it timing correctly , fish you beat me to that fact, what manual are you using, pip ? 

[TrxPipUK 169]

23 minutes ago, _Wilson_™ said:

what manual are you using, pip ? 

This is the manual I am using 

[oh400ex 629]

From what I have found so far this model is actually a 1992 TRX350N... is that right?

 

Can look on the frame's model sticker to find out if you haven't already. 

Totally unfamiliar with that model as it would be Canadian and UK only.

 

Can't find any manual that specifically references the 1992 model (or the 350N at all)

Most info about this bike online is from Goober and Shade anyway. Had a time tracking down a decent cam...

I might have one of the last NOS cams for this bike in the US lol

 

That manual was printed about three years before your bike was produced... there is certainly a possibility that some changes were made. 🤷‍♂️

[_Wilson_™ 6,567]

On December 17, 2019 at 5:29 AM, shadetree said:

for the record ?, your engine is the same engine I rebuilt on the '88 trx350D foreman 4x4 project here !. that should make you shiver a tad huh ?.lol.

 

^^^^^^ solves the year model issue, eh ? 

[retro 4,048]

10 hours ago, oh400ex said:

Like you, I am curious why the manual I have access to (86-89 Foreman 350) says clearly to turn the flywheel clockwise (incorrect)

Wondering if it is actually CCW for every 350 or if the 92 UK model you have is different.

 

There are lots of errors scattered throughout Honda's factory service manuals. Ya get used to seeing incorrect info after reading a bunch of them. The cam chain tensioner is mounted in the same location on all the TRX350 years/models (rearward of the chain/guide) so all TRX350 crankshafts rotate the same direction.

 

8 hours ago, Goober said:

 @TrxPipUK can you tell us if this is a counter-rotating flywheel? Pop the flywheel cover and pull starter gears. Does the flywheel turn opposite of bottom end?

 

The flywheel is bolted directly onto the end of the crankshaft taper. They rotate as one....

[retro 4,048]

7 hours ago, Goober said:

I don’t yet think the manual has been proven to be incorrect. 

 

Well it is.... there are many more silly errors in that same service manual too.

[retro 4,048]

6 hours ago, oh400ex said:

That manual was printed about three years before your bike was produced... there is certainly a possibility that some changes were made.

 

Nope, all TRX350 motors are of the same design (parts interchange too!) regardless where or when they were manufactured. Minor improvements were made to the early motors (starter reduction, compression release, electrical/Ignition etc.) but the design never changed.

[Goober 1,555]

I know from the left side when the starter is run it goes CW

reduction gear CCW

idler gears CW

70 tooth flywheel CCW

so that’s a bummer, to put it mildly.  i got 6 TRX350A with valves not adjusted properly. 

[retro 4,048]

2 minutes ago, Goober said:

so that’s a bummer, to put it mildly.  i got 6 TRX350A with valves not adjusted properly. 

 

Well no... you have adjusted them all correctly. When both cam lobes are facing down (the heels of the rockers on the base circle of each lobe) and the marks in the sight hole are relatively close to TDC the crank is positioned at the firing event.... the direction of rotation of the crank that ya took to get to that location has no effect on valve adjustment accuracy.

[Goober 1,555]

I gotta apologize to @TrxPipUK and @oh400ex for trying to lead you astray.
 

well in my defense You were trying to advance the engine using the kick start and peep thru the timing hole! who does that it way anyways  lols!?

[oh400ex 629]

15 minutes ago, Goober said:

I gotta apologize to @TrxPipUK and @oh400ex for trying to lead you astray.
 

well in my defense You were trying to advance the engine using the kick start and peep thru the timing hole! who does that it way anyways  lols!?

 

No apology needed from my perspective... you were only trying to argue the good point of "follow the service manual".

It just bit you this time... lol 

 

What's worse is not even looking at the timing marks, just taking the top covers off and looking at the cam while using a small flat screwdriver in the spark plug hole to find TDC...

 

...which is what I will do if I am feeling too lazy to take off more covers.

[retro 4,048]

I'm a lot lazier that that, I just rotate by hand to the end of the compression stroke and adjust 'em!

[TrxPipUK 169]

4 hours ago, oh400ex said:

 

Can look on the frame's model sticker to find out if you haven't already. 

I don't have the sticker on the frame unfortunately as the frame was blasted and powder coated 

[TrxPipUK 169]

8 hours ago, Goober said:

I gotta apologize to @TrxPipUK and @oh400ex for trying to lead you astray.
 

well in my defense You were trying to advance the engine using the kick start and peep thru the timing hole! who does that it way anyways  lols!?

No apology needed Goober! 

[TrxPipUK 169]

9 hours ago, retro said:

 

There are lots of errors scattered throughout Honda's factory service manuals. Ya get used to seeing incorrect info after reading a bunch of them. The cam chain tensioner is mounted in the same location on all the TRX350 years/models (rearward of the chain/guide) so all TRX350 crankshafts rotate the same direction.

 

 

The flywheel is bolted directly onto the end of the crankshaft taper. They rotate as one....

Thanks again retro for setting us all straight lol

[Fishfiles 20,145]

So what did " we " learn here , the 350D and 350A spin opposite direction as most other Hondas and you can't always believe what's written in service manuals , I am not a 350D guy and I knew that , LOL 

 

The only reason I knew they spun backwards of the norm was , when guys build 300 engines with 350 heads on them , they have a special made reverse ground camshaft  for them as the OEM 350 cam would  spin backwards if not 

 

Guess I am back yard , as I pull the plug and tap the starter button with my finger over the spark plug hole till I feel compression , then look for the mark and looseness of the rocker arms 

[_Wilson_™ 6,567]

1 hour ago, Fishfiles said:

Guess I am back yard , as I pull the plug and tap the starter button with my finger over the spark plug hole till I feel compression , then look for the mark and looseness of the rocker arms

 

thats what i do as well. 

[_Wilson_™ 6,567]

i do t why i missed that reveres ground cam shaft, i believe you posted about it in the old forums  you might not be a 350d guy, but you sure cleared this up, lol! goober i wouldn't apologize for going by the book. that's my take on it. they might have made a mistake in printing, but still built one of top 10 atvs ever, when they came out with those tanks. 

Edited December 20, 2020 by _Wilson_™

[TrxPipUK 169]

Hi all.

Wondering if anyone can help me with an issue I'm having? 

Basically I think the carb is either sticking or there's a fuel issue. It idles okay but then when you rev it up and let off it stays quite high for a few seconds before dropping down to idle speed again. Also it revs up by itself sometimes after giving it some throttle. 

I'm pretty puzzled about what's happening with it so help would be amazing. Thanks 

 

https://youtu.be/OB5gOOD5WjY

Edited December 22, 2020 by TrxPipUK

[_Wilson_™ 6,567]

did you pull the carb back off after the video of it running ?  you also might try working the handle bars back and forth while it's idoling which would tell me it's a binding throttle cable. 

[oh400ex 629]

1 hour ago, TrxPipUK said:

Hi all.

Wondering if anyone can help me with an issue I'm having? 

Basically I think the carb is either sticking or there's a fuel issue. It idles okay but then when you rev it up and let off it stays quite high for a few seconds before dropping down to idle speed again. Also it revs up by itself sometimes after giving it some throttle. 

I'm pretty puzzled about what's happening with it so help would be amazing. Thanks 

 

Sounds like a vacuum leak.

Being that there is no throttle side diaphragm on this model (as we discussed earlier) the next primary suspect is the intake boot.

 

In the most simple terms... air is getting somewhere it shouldn't.

There are a few different possibilities that come to mind...

Leaky intake boot, improperly lapped/adjusted valves, carburetor/throttle adjustment and worn-out parts...

If the throttle is hard to push (at all) there may be resistance in the slide or cable causing this symptom.

Don't think it's that due to it revving up on its own though... hard to tell from video.

 

There are a few different checks that can be done to test for leaks around the intake boot.

The most common is to spray carb cleaner or starting fluid around the area to see if any is sucked in causing a noticeable difference in RPM.

That way is arguably dangerous due to the possibility of the flammable liquid combusting so is frowned upon by some.

My counter-point to that argument is that the amount needed for the test is so minimal that if it did catch fire would quickly burn away before causing further damage (assuming it didn't light something else in the process) (AKA use common sense!)

If you choose to do the test make sure you use very short bursts and give time for the product to evaporate before going further. 

 

Greasing the boot before installation (lightly) will sometimes make up for a slightly worn boot.

Some folks who run in deep water will use a large amount of grease around all sealing points as an attempt to prevent water from coming in.

 

 

[shadetree 5,869]

i just skimmed through this last few post, and i will toss my .02's in, and leave it at that ( and thanks to all that mentioned my skill on these old gals ! ). lets start off with the basic's of what takes place when you install the flywheel bolt into the end of the crank shall we ? :-). from the left side, you are installing the flywheel crank bolt..right ?, ok..your turning the flywheel bolt clockwise to tighten it..correct ?..great !, now..stop and think about this..if the flywheel turns clockwise as some of you and the manual says ?, DON'T YOU THINK IF THE FLYWHEEL WAS TURNING CLOCKWISE WHEN RUNNING...THAT THE FLYWHEEL BOLT WOULD BACK OUT WHEN RUNNING ?..AH HA !..NOW YOUR USING YOUR BRAIN CELLS !. simple physics here ppl..flywheel turns counter clockwise, so the flywheel bolt would '' self tighten '' when its running in counter clockwise rotatation !..YES..THE SERVICE MANUAL IS NOT 100% CORRECT !!.