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Bossdaddy

2002 Honda Foreman 450 ES Getting Extremely Hot

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When I got this Foreman it was just barely running. I rebuilt the carb and replaced the choke cable. When I went to start it it fired up and ran pretty good. I let it idle after the choke was no longer needed and adjusted the carb and it was running really good. Then I noticed it was extremely hot, this was to quick to be hot , we're talking less than five minutes. I immediately shut it down. Checked the oil which was normal. Can anybody give me somewhere to start to figure out why it ran so hot so quick. I have seen many start to get hot and fan comes on and they kool down. I don't think the oil ever got to the cooler. The fan never came on.

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Did you happen to change the oil , maybe you flipped the oil filter backwards !! 

 

 

The temperature  sensor is under the engine , under the skid plate , maybe the wire got knocked off ,  if you jump that  wire going to the sensor to ground , then  the fan should come on if everything is good 

 

If the fan were coming on and it was still running hot then I would think , the air flow to  the oil cooler is blocked with mud

 

 

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Fishfiles, I haven't changed the oil but it has very clean oil. That crossed my mind about the oil filter but didn't know would happen if it got flipped. Man I hope that is the problem. I've heard of people installing the filter backwards but never heard what the results were if that happens. I'll check it out tomorrow.

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24 minutes ago, Bossdaddy said:

Fishfiles, I haven't changed the oil but it has very clean oil. That crossed my mind about the oil filter but didn't know would happen if it got flipped. Man I hope that is the problem. I've heard of people installing the filter backwards but never heard what the results were if that happens. I'll check it out tomorrow.

Installing the filter the wrong way  , will block off  the flow of oil to the engine and cause damage quick  ---- it is a very common  mistake 

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It did get hot but I never heard any noises at all coming from the engine, maybe that is the problem and I didn't hurt the engine.

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I still don't understand the fan not coming on and I never got a overheating light.

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13 hours ago, Bossdaddy said:

I still don't understand the fan not coming on and I never got a overheating light.

 

If oil isn't getting to the top end, the oil doesn't get hot, and the temp sensor in the bottom of the engine doesn't trip the fan.

 

Top end gets hotter than !, but the oil in the bottom end isn't that hot.

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I didn't get the results I wanted on the oil filter. The filter was installed correctly. 

jeepwm69, I understand what you are saying about the top end, what would be the most likely reason for not getting oil ?

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It's hard to explain how quick it got hot and how hot it was. In less than five minutes it was smoking hot. The exhaust pipe, shield and all was so hot it was heating the left rear fender and there is no exhaust leaks. I've got two more Foreman 450's I can start both of them leave them running for ten minutes and the fan will not come on and they will not be hot enough for the fan to come on. I don't know if the oil was hot or not. Totally lost again!!

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1 hour ago, Bossdaddy said:

I didn't get the results I wanted on the oil filter. The filter was installed correctly. 

jeepwm69, I understand what you are saying about the top end, what would be the most likely reason for not getting oil ?

 

On the 500 where i had that happen, it was the oil pump. They don't go bad often, but it does happen.

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do what fish said ^^, under rear engine is the oil temp sensor, unplug it from the sensor, turn the key on, ground the wire to the engine, when you touch the wire to the engine/ground , it should instantly kick the oil cooler fan on, if it does ?, then this means the oil temp sensor is bad. if the fan does not kick on ?, either the fan is locked up ?, or the control box that sits right next to the c.d.i. is bad ?.

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Not without at least partially taking it apart. 
 

Front cover and/or head.

 

Try what they suggested with the fan first, but I don’t see the fans run much on the air cooled machine anyway unless it’s hotter than hades outside and you’re working the machine hard

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Since you started with carb issues did you check the plug to make sure it's not running lean?

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34 minutes ago, toodeep said:

Since you started with carb issues did you check the plug to make sure it's not running lean?

even if it is running lean ?, then fan should kick on from over heating...correct ?.

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toodeep, I have not checked the plug but I will first chance I get tomorrow.

shadetree, I believe I very well may have a problem with the fan or some of the components associated with the fan and I am working on checking them out, but the fan not coming on did not cause it to run so extremely hot so quick. All of us know that these engines will start and run a very long time under the conditions it was in, 68 degree in a shop under no load at all. The oil pump may be something to look at but after I have tried everything else. The carb bring to lean may be something to look in to. Here is something to think about, I mentioned the exhaust was so hot, the exhaust and shield may have been the hottest thing, and when I drained the oil this morning checking the oil filter, the oil had a strong smell of gasoline to me.

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2 hours ago, shadetree said:

even if it is running lean ?, then fan should kick on from over heating...correct ?.

 

The bottom end would still be cool (oil sensor) but the top end could be cooking since that's where the campfire is. It's just something to check out.

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12 hours ago, jeepwm69 said:

Not without at least partially taking it apart. 
 

Front cover and/or head.

 

Try what they suggested with the fan first, but I don’t see the fans run much on the air cooled machine anyway unless it’s hotter than hades outside and you’re working the machine hard

I am with you , doubt the fan is going to make any difference , it runs hot too fast -----------    I am gonna take a wild guess ,  gauled piston and bore from oil pump failure , pump seized up and sheared off the drive tangs ----  

 

 

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Fishfiles, I hope you're wrong but who knows, I am hoping toodeep's theory is what the problem is. I appreciate all comments and I'm looking at all suggestions. Keep them coming. 

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I just checked the sparkplug and it's black on one half and mostly like new on the other, I put in a new plug prior to start up the first time. Replaced the oil filter and filled with oil. Started up, had to use choke the whole time to keep it running, in approximately one minute I could tell it was starting to get hot mostly at the exhaust pipe and within 30 more seconds it was really hot, shut it down. I checked the sides and bottom of engine and it was just barely warm. The engine it very quite, not ticks or knocks at all. I continued to run it and adjust the carb but it never ran right and only while using the choke to help keep it running.

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Have you set the valves?

 

I think you can check oil flow by cycling the engine to see if it’s getting to the head. 

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Posted (edited)

-you can remove the small oil passage bolt on the top of valve cover to confirm oil flow to the top end

It sounds like if exhaust is getting hot quickly before the rest of engine, maybe an air leak causing it to run lean

also- if your oil smells of fuel, you might want to check your carb overflow valve as they sometimes get installed backwards

and the gas backs up into the the engine because it cant drain.

This is bad as it will wash out your rings, thin your oil and cause more issues-it will raise your oil level too if its a lot so check your oil level

If the drain hose is still on the carb, it should only pass air/fuel one way, try blowing thru it to check

The 350s are well known for their troublesome fuel needle valves, so you might want to check that as well

you should also be able to ground the fan sensor wire with key on and confirm if your fan and fan control are working properly

Edited by AKATV
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