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Bman

Looking for a 450ES Warn or Wide open 424

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Anyone got one they want to part with or know of one? Looking for one for a 99 450ES

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9 hours ago, Bman said:

Anyone got one they want to part with or know of one? Looking for one for a 99 450ES

 Wide Open DS4500 is the number that fits a  98-2001 TRX450 ---- good luck 

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Not easy to find.  You can swap in an 02-04 factory selectable front diff, but you have to shorten the front driveshaft a hair, or swap an 02-04 final shaft into your engine.

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Jeepwm69, is Reto still selling those regulators for the 400 to 350 4x4 to 4x2 swap? Or is there a schematic I can build one from?

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When you say shorten the driveshaft. Are we talking cutting out length from the middle and welding back. Or shaving some off each end?

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2 hours ago, jeepwm69 said:

Not easy to find.  You can swap in an 02-04 factory selectable front diff, but you have to shorten the front driveshaft a hair, or swap an 02-04 final shaft into your engine.

I did not have to do anything to  put a 1st gen 450 - 424 into a second gen 450 , nothing had to be shortened or lengthened , was a direct fit ---- I seem to remember  SamUK had the same results as me  ----  now putting the 1st gen full time diff into the 2nd genb  part time diff frame did require just a bit of tweaking , just a little cutting and grinding ,  but like I said nothing as far as drive shaft length 

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1 hour ago, MoeBwonKinobi said:

Jeepwm69, is Reto still selling those regulators for the 400 to 350 4x4 to 4x2 swap? Or is there a schematic I can build one from?

That’s over my pay grade.  @retro might be able to give you instructions.

 

It will work hooked to 12v, but he said the actuator should last longer if the voltage is reduced to the min required voltage to engage the electromagnet

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20 minutes ago, Fishfiles said:

I did not have to do anything to  put a 1st gen 450 - 424 into a second gen 450 , nothing had to be shortened or lengthened , was a direct fit ---- I seem to remember  SamUK had the same results as me  ----  now putting the 1st gen full time diff into the 2nd genb  part time diff frame did require just a bit of tweaking , just a little cutting and grinding ,  but like I said nothing as far as drive shaft length 

Sam and Shadetree both had trouble squeezing the 02-04 front diff in place.  It will go but is tighter than it’s supposed to be.  Sam crammed it in there, while Shadetree cut a bit out of the front shaft and welded it back together.

 

When AKATV (IIRC) was tearing down engines he posted a pic showing the very minor difference in length in the early and later output shafts.  The 02-04 output shaft was a hair shorter than the 98-01.

 

When I get to my desktop I’ll see if I can find the thread with pics

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37 minutes ago, Bman said:

When you say shorten the driveshaft. Are we talking cutting out length from the middle and welding back. Or shaving some off each end?

I imagine either would work.  Shadetree cut a bit out of the middle and rewelded the ends together, presumably to preserve as much of the splines as possible 

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Page 28 and 29 of my 2002 450  build  , swapping  the full time front diff and 424 install into the 2002 450 in place of the electric shift , 424 shaft was not cut or tight --- still have that one   

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Well I couldn't find the thread doing a quick search.  Was it you @AKATV who posted the different length final shafts?

 

Partzilla shows both parts next to a ruler.

 

98-01 looks to be about 15.5 inches

https://www.partzilla.com/product/honda/23611-HN0-A00?ref=5b8916ab6944ab54dda541c79028ac3d8f60da34

 

02-04 looks to be right at 15 inches, maybe a hair over

https://www.partzilla.com/product/honda/23611-HN0-670?ref=bf03d0118cd901bb32afb0f5eaed7d472ac84b73

 

So again, not a big difference, and explains why @SamUK was able to wedge it in there without modifications (the front propeller shaft should have a little "float" to it with the springs in place).

 

@shadetree wasn't cool with no float, so he cut a hair out of the propeller shaft and welded it back up, which worked fine.

 

https://www.hondaatvforums.net/threads/1999-trx450s.127674/page-10

 

https://www.hondaatvforums.net/threads/1999-trx450s.127674/page-13#post-1278902

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Fishfiles said:

Page 28 and 29 of my 2002 450  build  , swapping  the full time front diff and 424 install into the 2002 450 in place of the electric shift , 424 shaft was not cut or tight --- still have that one   

 

Yeah, your 02 final shaft in the engine would be shorter by 1/2" or so than the 98-01 final shaft, so the 424 would be too short if anything.  The long splines and springs on the ends of the driveshaft should make it work ok though.

 

If you look at the partzilla links above, the 02-04 final shaft front output is right at 3.75 inches from the bearing flat to the end of the shaft (left side in the pic)

 

The 98-01 output shaft is about 4.25" from the flat to the end. 

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So if I go the swap route. Which drive shaft is better to use? The 98-01 or 02+. From what I understand the 98-01 should have the shorter drive shaft due to it having the longer output shaft correct?  

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, jeepwm69 said:

Sam and Shadetree both had trouble squeezing the 02-04 front diff in place.  It will go but is tighter than it’s supposed to be.  Sam crammed it in there, while Shadetree cut a bit out of the front shaft and welded it back together.

 

When AKATV (IIRC) was tearing down engines he posted a pic showing the very minor difference in length in the early and later output shafts.  The 02-04 output shaft was a hair shorter than the 98-01.

 

When I get to my desktop I’ll see if I can find the thread with pics

Jeep

(Correction)

I did that awhile back and the difference I posted were for the Foreman 400 and 450 as I was trying to determine bottom end differences

on the 400 vs 450

shorter one in picture is the Foreman 400

 

Here is the link with picture

 

 

2089408405_IMG_53181.thumb.JPG.0855e47f1671e635fd02f3da30778620.jpg

Edited by AKATV
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Here is a pic in real life , 2002 TRX450 ( 2nd Gen ) , electric front diff removed , 1st Gen full time diff installed with a stock TRX450 ( DS4500 ) 424 , driveshaft length has NOT been modified , 

mhg6AYC0QYqprgWl0HSMLg.jpg

m4tuVkGUR9aH22pCxByy6w.jpg

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1 hour ago, Bman said:

So if I go the swap route. Which drive shaft is better to use? The 98-01 or 02+. From what I understand the 98-01 should have the shorter drive shaft due to it having the longer output shaft correct?  

 

Negative.  The early diff is a lot shorter (lacks the actuator), so the early driveshaft is actually longer. 

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4 hours ago, MoeBwonKinobi said:

Jeepwm69, is Reto still selling those regulators for the 400 to 350 4x4 to 4x2 swap? Or is there a schematic I can build one from?

 

Hi MoeBwonKinobi,

I am out of aluminum bar stock right now, that I make heatsinks out of... got other projects going on right now too.... but if you shoot me a PM message when you get ready to work on your selectable swap, I'll see if I can make you a regulator. Have fun!

 

EDIT: You mentioned that the orange plastics need to be freshened up a bit in another thread.... I recommend removing the fenders & plastics and clean them thoroughly, then wipe the plastics down with Acetone real good. Then apply a wet coating of Wipe New Recolor to all of the plastics and let them dry for 36 hours before reassembly. You'll be surprised how that stuff works to restore slightly faded plastics and make them appear better than new! Its a durable coating too, mine has 4 years on it and still looks showroom!

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So Is the earlier drive shaft better or the later one?

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1 hour ago, Bman said:

So Is the earlier drive shaft better or the later one?

 

If you're having to shorten it to fit, I'd use the one you already have, since both will need to be shortened down a hair.

 

That's assuming a cut and weld like Shadetree did.  If you wanted to just grind on the end of the shaft to make it work, the shorter 02-04 would be better.

 

I'd cut it and have it welded back together.  Would cost a little bit to have it cut and welded, but you'll keep full splines that way, and can use your existing shaft.

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