Fishfiles 20,147 Posted April 22, 2022 11 minutes ago, Bossdaddy said: How long will a 450 run with the oil pump not working? Are we taking record time or just well as could be expected time ??? ----- How much wood can a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood !!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bossdaddy 209 Posted April 22, 2022 I'm asking, if the engine was just idling, under no load, how long would it be before I would start seeing signs of the oil pump not working. I'm looking for a ballpark time I know it will vary. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shadetree 5,970 Posted April 23, 2022 11 hours ago, Bossdaddy said: I'm asking, if the engine was just idling, under no load, how long would it be before I would start seeing signs of the oil pump not working. I'm looking for a ballpark time I know it will vary. just take the fuel tank off, heat shield off, remove the valve cover, with key on, kill switch OFF !, crank it over a few sec's, see if oil is getting to the top end ??. you are making this harder than what it really is !..lol. a black plug either means is running rich ? ( would explain why it only runs when choke is on ! ), a lean engine would make the spark plug white'tish, not black !. a black plug means is either running rich ?, or the rings are worn out ?. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fishfiles 20,147 Posted April 23, 2022 13 hours ago, Bossdaddy said: How long will a 450 run with the oil pump not working? Longer than most other brands , like the Ever-Ready Bunny , they keep going and going , even though Ever-Ready sucks and DuraCell is better --- Pic for Attention --- LOL I did not know about the oil journal plug that AKATV mentioned , that sounds like the easiest way to see if it has oil flow ---- ------------ I would think if you took the oil filter out and spun the engine over you should see oil flow , or remove an oil cooler hose from the engine , or like Shade says open the valve cover I seem to recall @shadetree found a oil pump locked up on a 450 or 350 not too long ago and it twisted the drive tangs off Guessing isn't getting anywhere , I " Got a Feeling " , whatever is going to be , is nothing we will ever think of , LOL 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Goober 1,555 Posted April 23, 2022 (edited) pull the valve cover and set the valves. You can check for oil and burned valves at this time. Don’t run the engine anymore until you figure this out. is only your exhaust extremely hot or is the valve cover or head getting hot too? check for obstructions in exhaust Check valve clearance. Valves may be too tight. too rich, valves loose you may also be igniting fuel in the exhaust pipe. check compression timing is off (timing chain) hooboy nice pic @Fishfiles detonation blowing past the rings into the crank would explain the fuely oil Edited April 23, 2022 by Goober 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
toodeep 1,759 Posted April 23, 2022 To just make sure the oil pump is working just removing the filter cover will tell you that. Turn it over a few times with that cover off and oil should be flowing. To make sure it's getting to the top end then the fuel tank and covers need to be removed. If you have to have the choke on for it to run I'm still going to go after carb issues and a lean mixture. Is the pilot screw turned out about 2 1/2 turns (a good starting point)? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bossdaddy 209 Posted April 24, 2022 toodeep, 2 1/2 turns was where I started at but to get it to run I had it out about 5 1/2 turns. I'm like you I think the biggest problem is the carb on the overheating and running bad. I will check the oil flow and fix the heat indicator problem. All the suggestions are greatly appreciated and always a learning experience, I need everybody's help and input and thanks to all of you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fishfiles 20,147 Posted April 24, 2022 5 1/2 WOW , LOL Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bossdaddy 209 Posted May 18, 2022 OK guys, I finally got back to working on this, sleep robber, and the problem with the quick heat up was the carburetor. Long story. I've got to move on to the other problem which is the red oil/temp light working and not working also fan never come on. I will go back in thread and look it over and probably start by verifying the fan motor is good and works as it should. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bossdaddy 209 Posted May 18, 2022 I jumped the wire going to the temp sensor and nothing happened. Also, when I turn the key to on sometime the red light comes on sometimes it doesn't, sometimes it will come on and stay on when engine is still cold, red light is very erratic, any suggestions Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AKATV 842 Posted May 18, 2022 Was key on when you jumped wire? it has to be on for the fan to come on If so, you can put FCU in oven @ 450 for 7-8 minutes- it will bring them back a lot of times as failed internal solder joints causes most issues Also, make sure fan is good by powering up directly Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bossdaddy 209 Posted May 18, 2022 Key was on. I'm not sure which one is FCU. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AKATV 842 Posted May 18, 2022 You have two similar black boxes up under the front hood -one is the CDI for spark the other one is your fan control (FCU) The fan control unit has a green plug on the front where it connects to the harness Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bossdaddy 209 Posted May 18, 2022 AKATV. I just got it out of the oven, letting it cool to room temp. I could pinch and hold the pinch it with my fingers. turn the key on and the red light worked correctly, went off in a few seconds so maybe this will fix it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AKATV 842 Posted May 18, 2022 That’s a good sign if your light turns on for a few seconds and then goes off when you turn the key on now The next thing you want to check is when you ground out your temp sensor wire with the key on, your fan should come on as well as the red light keep in mind the red light should never come on during normal operation other than cycling the key for the first few seconds, the fan should come on during normal operation and the light should not come on if the red light comes on during normal operation that’s an indication of overheat past the temperature that normally turns the fan on -at that point you should shut down and investigate Also if I didn’t mention earlier it’s a good thing to wash out your oil cooler clean enough so that you can see daylight through it so the air can pass freely through it it is common to get plugged up with mud and cause overheating Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bossdaddy 209 Posted May 18, 2022 The cooler is clean, that was cleaned when I did the initial clean up. After cooling down I installed the FCU and it works perfectly, the red light works properly, the fan ran like it should when wire was grounded to engine, so all seems good. I even got the skid plate back on. Thanks, AKATV 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bossdaddy 209 Posted May 19, 2022 " Long Story " The quick heat up problem was the carb. How I got the problem solved was by doing a lot of different things you guys talked about. I removed the carb, remover the gas tank, heat shield and valve cover, turned engine over a few times with the spark plug removed and had plenty of oil, adjusted the valves, intake was reading .008 and exhaust was reading .012 adjusted both to .006. Flushed fuel tank and reassembled things back to carb installation. I went back thru the carb and found nothing I thought was causing the quick heat up. In stalled the carb fired it up and had the same problem it had to have the choke to run. Removed carb again and installed a Shindy kit reassembled it and installed it, fired it up and got the same results. A few day ago when this problem was being talked about heavily I went to Partzilla and ordered a OEM carb $210 tax and all, UPS had delivered the new carb about two hours before the last try with the rebuild. I was so mad by now I immediately removed the carb, probably in less than two minutes and when I pulled the carb out of the intake there was raw fuel everywhere, I felt sure that was the heat up problem. I installed the new carb, fired it up and it ran perfect, didn't have to use the choke and the heating problem is gone. I don't know what is wrong with the old carb but I believe it's got something to do with the choke system. Thanks to all of you who helped and gave your opinion. I think I may be finally done with this one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AKATV 842 Posted May 19, 2022 1 hour ago, Bossdaddy said: The cooler is clean, that was cleaned when I did the initial clean up. After cooling down I installed the FCU and it works perfectly, the red light works properly, the fan ran like it should when wire was grounded to engine, so all seems good. I even got the skid plate back on. Thanks, AKATV Glad to hear it worked well for you Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
teamroper 4 Posted May 28, 2022 It takes a lot for the fan to come on. Just in case make sure you test all three sensors for functionality. They do get hot. The red temp light should come on if the oil is getting too hot. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DeTaylor 48 Posted June 20, 2022 I’m also facing over heating now. Red light come and goes pretty frequently the past week. Does the light get brighter as the temp gets hotter? My light, when lit, seems to be fairly dull but is nice and bright at start up. The light also goes away but then comes back shortly after (all in one drive). Going to start by cleaning the oil cooler and then start messing with the fan - I have never seen it spin but just now getting the overheat issue. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bossdaddy 209 Posted June 20, 2022 I wish I could help. There are some guys on here that can get you started. It sounds like a wiring problem or bad sensor, they will help you out, good luck. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DeTaylor 48 Posted June 20, 2022 16 minutes ago, Bossdaddy said: I wish I could help. There are some guys on here that can get you started. It sounds like a wiring problem or bad sensor, they will help you out, good luck. Without a doubt. Great group of knowledgeable guys. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeepwm69 7,736 Posted June 20, 2022 2 hours ago, DeTaylor said: I’m also facing over heating now. Red light come and goes pretty frequently the past week. Does the light get brighter as the temp gets hotter? My light, when lit, seems to be fairly dull but is nice and bright at start up. The light also goes away but then comes back shortly after (all in one drive). Going to start by cleaning the oil cooler and then start messing with the fan - I have never seen it spin but just now getting the overheat issue. That's usually backfeeding/wire grounding out somewhere (the dim light) Have the same issue on my buddy's 450 I'm working on now. I haven't had time to dig further into it after hooking up a battery and finding both Neutral and Reverse lights are both on at the same time (but they're dim as you mention) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeepwm69 7,736 Posted June 20, 2022 2 hours ago, DeTaylor said: I’m also facing over heating now. Red light come and goes pretty frequently the past week. Does the light get brighter as the temp gets hotter? My light, when lit, seems to be fairly dull but is nice and bright at start up. The light also goes away but then comes back shortly after (all in one drive). Going to start by cleaning the oil cooler and then start messing with the fan - I have never seen it spin but just now getting the overheat issue. Single wire going to the back of the engine, goes onto the temp sensor. Pull that wire off, and ground it on the engine with the key on. Fan should come on at that point, along with the temp light 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites