1992 350D Starting problems

[shadetree 5,869]

4 hours ago, TrxPipUK said:

Thanks man! Yeah it's great to learn this stuff I think... especially about a machine I'll be using lots once its running. 

Just gotta keep saving the £$£$ lol. Thanks for your help as always man 

np..glad too help you out !. as for learning ?..lol..i do this almost every day, 28 years of this as a hobby, I learn new stuff every day !.

[TrxPipUK 169]

12 hours ago, retro said:

 

Once the piston is off the rod, take the wrist pin and slide it into the top of the rod just far enough that the pin begins to poke out of the other side of the rod. In this manner you'll have a long section of the pin in your hand that you can use for leverage. Lift the pin straight up and down several times to cause it to rock in the wrist pin bore of the rod. There should be little to none play there.... if you see and feel any play at all it should be barely perceptible. Any excessive play in the top of the rod will be noticed right away.

 

Repeat the same lift/drop procedure to verify that there is no play in the bearing on the bottom of the rod. The bottom of the rod should have between .015" - .030" of end play (slides side-to-side), but with no perceptible vertical play at all in the lower rod bearing. Let us know the results and take a pic so we'll know that ya did it right.

 

So been to the workshop and tested the rod on both ends. There is the tiniest amount of play at the top end, like a very minimal amount. At the bottom end there is a little bit of play side-to-side but none up and down. 

Video of bottom end test^^^

[jeepwm69 7,611]

On 2/23/2020 at 8:58 AM, shadetree said:

I hear g&h went china parts now ??. if so ?, best to look elsewhere !..lol.

I emailed them last week. You can still get Shindy, and they said the TRX500 pistons they supply would be Shindy (since I have a couple of those that will need bore jobs)  They said the Namura pistons are Taiwanese, not Chinese, but I still prefer Shindy. 

[F250 guy 107]

Good to know thanks @jeepwm69. 

[retro 4,048]

Yup, Taiwan is a manufacturing center and shipping port of China. Its legal corporate franchise name is TAIWAN REPUBLIC OF CHINA (all caps legally identify corporations). Its like saying New York corp is not part of USA corp.

[retro 4,048]

10 hours ago, TrxPipUK said:

So been to the workshop and tested the rod on both ends. There is the tiniest amount of play at the top end, like a very minimal amount. At the bottom end there is a little bit of play side-to-side but none up and down. 

 

Did you hold the long end of the wrist pin on your hand and to wiggle it up and down in the top of the rod?

 

The wrist pin looks good so I expect the rod to be OK. But you have to decide if it is good or not.

[TrxPipUK 169]

6 hours ago, retro said:

 

Did you hold the long end of the wrist pin on your hand and to wiggle it up and down in the top of the rod?

 

The wrist pin looks good so I expect the rod to be OK. But you have to decide if it is good or not.

Yes I put the wrist pin into the rod as pictured. Then holding the long end I wriggled it up and down. 

What is a cause for the rod to be in bad shape? Just general use or what? 

Thanks man

[shadetree 5,869]

11 hours ago, retro said:

Yup, Taiwan is a manufacturing center and shipping port of China. Its legal corporate franchise name is TAIWAN REPUBLIC OF CHINA (all caps legally identify corporations). Its like saying New York corp is not part of USA corp.

call it what ya want ?, but I've had great luck with namura piston kits, until one dies on my toys ?, I will keep using them, and tell others as well. to each their own :-). p.s. for the record ?, I put a namura piston kit in my '89 trx350D foreman 4x4 10 years ago, AND STILL KICKING RIGHT ALONG !.

[shadetree 5,869]

4 hours ago, TrxPipUK said:

Yes I put the wrist pin into the rod as pictured. Then holding the long end I wriggled it up and down. 

What is a cause for the rod to be in bad shape? Just general use or what? 

Thanks man

running hard, running with not enough oil, or oil pump fails ?. no oil ?, builds heat, heat causes wear, metal on metal..you can guess the rest from here !..lol.

[TrxPipUK 169]

1 hour ago, shadetree said:

running hard, running with not enough oil, or oil pump fails ?. no oil ?, builds heat, heat causes wear, metal on metal..you can guess the rest from here !..lol.

Ah okay, makes sense lol... So how much 'wiggle' is acceptable for the wrist pin? Not really sure what I'm looking for haha.

 

Did you see the video I linked for the bottom end test? 

[retro 4,048]

Yep, I watched your video. The clearance spec for the bottom rod bearing is about .0007" to .0012", or about 3/4 of a thousandth of an inch to just under 1-1/4 thousandths of an inch. The top of the rod clearance spec is slightly less... I did not look it up, but I think that spec is listed as about .0005" to about .001". Those are tight clearances.... so if they feel sloppy when you wiggle them they are probably out of spec. Judging by the appearance of your wristpin I am guessing that your rod is fine? If you agree then you can run it....

 

[jeepwm69 7,611]

3 hours ago, shadetree said:

call it what ya want ?, but I've had great luck with namura piston kits, until one dies on my toys ?, I will keep using them, and tell others as well. to each their own :-). p.s. for the record ?, I put a namura piston kit in my '89 trx350D foreman 4x4 10 years ago, AND STILL KICKING RIGHT ALONG !.

 

I got a Namura with the 350 Cylinder I sent them a while back, which is going on the kid's 350 Rancher (which I'm having to do because of a worn crank at the wrist pin).

 

I'll give it a try, simply because the cylinder was bored to match this piston, but in future orders I'll specify a Shindy!  I always want "Made In Japan" if it's available.

[retro 4,048]

If I buy china I deserve to be victimized. And once I buy china I lose my right to complain about opening a package and finding china crap. I guess I was born too darn principled... To each their own though.

[jeepwm69 7,611]

9 minutes ago, retro said:

If I buy china I deserve to be victimized. And once I buy china I lose my right to complain about opening a package and finding china crap. I guess I was born too darn principled... To each their own though.

 

In the past I've always gotten Shindy from G&H.  I was a little irritated when I saw the Namura box, but since Shade seems to have had good luck with them I'll give it a try, but again, in the future, now that I know that Shindy isn't the default, I will be requesting Shindy when I have G&H do a top end.

[TrxPipUK 169]

6 hours ago, retro said:

Yep, I watched your video. The clearance spec for the bottom rod bearing is about .0007" to .0012", or about 3/4 of a thousandth of an inch to just under 1-1/4 thousandths of an inch. The top of the rod clearance spec is slightly less... I did not look it up, but I think that spec is listed as about .0005" to about .001". Those are tight clearances.... so if they feel sloppy when you wiggle them they are probably out of spec. Judging by the appearance of your wristpin I am guessing that your rod is fine? If you agree then you can run it....

 

Thanks @retro 🙂

I've been checking out the manual and found these measurements. What does it mean by 'piston-to-piston pin clearance and how do I calculate it? I'll do the other measurements and get back to you 🙂

Thanks

[retro 4,048]

You don't need to be concerned about the wrist pin fit inside the piston, because they do not wear like the rod and pin does since the pin is a full floating design. On pressed in wristpins that would be important. Not here though. So just check the top of the rod for excessive wear.

 

But to answer your question you measure the pin bore diameter in the piston in 4 places, (two on each side) then measure the pin diameter the same way. Subtract the pin measurements from the pin bore measurements to learn the clearance. The wristpin inside the top of the rod clearance is determined in a similar manner. You need a precision bore gauge and a micrometer to measure those. Since most folks do not own precision measurement tools we advise them to wiggle the end of the wristpin in the rod to determine if its within spec or not. Its the best poor-boy method we can think of... 😉

[shadetree 5,869]

20 hours ago, jeepwm69 said:

 

In the past I've always gotten Shindy from G&H.  I was a little irritated when I saw the Namura box, but since Shade seems to have had good luck with them I'll give it a try, but again, in the future, now that I know that Shindy isn't the default, I will be requesting Shindy when I have G&H do a top end.

I will tell you this, run that namura piston kit, ( assuming all is good motor wise ? ), run it, if it fails ?, send me the bill for a shindy piston kit !, that's how much I trust them !.

[shadetree 5,869]

21 hours ago, retro said:

If I buy china I deserve to be victimized. And once I buy china I lose my right to complain about opening a package and finding china crap. I guess I was born too darn principled... To each their own though.

it wont be long, and we wont be able to get anything anymore that's NOT FROM CHINA !. parts are all going away from the ones we love, soon..we wont have a choice but to buy what is around !.

[retro 4,048]

Thats because you've been buying china and advising others to buy china as well. Our wallets determine what stays on the markets and what gets dropped. What ever happened to the ole' shadetree that always said if you can't afford to fix it right, don't fix it?!?

[shadetree 5,869]

31 minutes ago, retro said:

Thats because you've been buying china and advising others to buy china as well. Our wallets determine what stays on the markets and what gets dropped. What ever happened to the ole' shadetree that always said if you can't afford to fix it right, don't fix it?!?

i'll tell ya, for the most part..i always buy oem..that's until partzilla started selling china parts in a honda bag, claiming they are just as good ?, how can I stop that ?. as for other parts ?, I stick with what I've built with, namura has been good to me, all balls ?..screw them !, I've been down that road with those crappy bearings, I use boss bearings, like namura..they have not failed me yet ?, sooo..I will keep using them, until they let me down ?, or I hear someone that has bought my builds, and tells me otherwise ?, I will keep using the brand I always have been using. if I had my way about this ?, I'D BUY ALL OEM PARTS FROM HONDA !, but I only get some much cash per month, and the stuff I buy ?, is not as important as you think. in my eyes ?, i'll do what works for me. this has nothing to do with '' if ya can't fix it right ' ?, dont' mess with it'' !. this Is how I roll. how you..or jeep, or any one else here does their builds ?..ok..fine..do it your way. me ?..i'm gonna stick with what I know and do. trust me bro..i'd love to drop thousands of bucks on my builds, and put oem parts in them !!!. BUT..like I said..it wont be long..and us folks wont have a choice as to what part we buy ?..they all will either be from china ?, or discontinued !. you know it, jeep knows it, fish knows it, WE ALL KNOW IT !. its just a matter of time, and that road will end. ok, i'm stepping off my soap box now, ya'll have fun with this. OP, I'M TRUELY SORRY FOR HIGH JACKING YOUR THREAD ! :-).

[jeepwm69 7,611]

Interesting seeing what this coronavirus is doing over in China.  Whole dang country is more or less shut down from some reports I'm seeing.

 

https://www.hellenicshippingnews.com/chinas-recent-air-pollution-levels-may-be-telling-a-story-about-the-coronavirus-impact-on-its-economy/

[TRX Student 151]

1 minute ago, jeepwm69 said:

Interesting seeing what this coronavirus is doing over in China.  Whole dang country is more or less shut down from some reports I'm seeing.

 

https://www.hellenicshippingnews.com/chinas-recent-air-pollution-levels-may-be-telling-a-story-about-the-coronavirus-impact-on-its-economy/

Been waiting for my valve lapping tool for two months now. Sometimes things take a long time to get here, but on my ebay account it said things are being delayed. I'm afraid to make any more purchases from ebay sellers in china now. I have a 350 big bear that I recovered. Want to see if it will run. An ignition switch on ebay for 8$ canadian, and free shipping. But its coming from china, so no longer sure if I should jump on it or not.

[shadetree 5,869]

1 minute ago, TRX Student said:

Been waiting for my valve lapping tool for two months now. Sometimes things take a long time to get here, but on my ebay account it said things are being delayed. I'm afraid to make any more purchases from ebay sellers in china now. I have a 350 big bear that I recovered. Want to see if it will run. An ignition switch on ebay for 8$ canadian, and free shipping. But its coming from china, so no longer sure if I should jump on it or not.

see if power sports nation has any used parts.

[TRX Student 151]

2 minutes ago, shadetree said:

see if power sports nation has any used parts.

11$ plus 21$ shipping , I have the discount code too, but even then 8$ and free shipping is impossible to get close to.

Edited February 27, 2020 by TRX Student

[jeepwm69 7,611]

True, but that part from PSN will be OEM, which is something like an ignition switch is worth it.

 

Shipping kills you being up there.