2001 Honda Foreman 450 ES, shifting problems

[Bossdaddy 209]

It was in great shape, tight, shiny, clean.

[Melatv 792]

52 minutes ago, Bossdaddy said:

No problem, new reading is 0 on grey/red. 

Retro should that not be reading infinity or is the reverse switch closed

Edited June 3, 2021 by Melatv

[retro 4,048]

3 minutes ago, Melatv said:

Retro should that not be reading infinity or the reverse switch closed

 

Yes it should read open circuit, no continuity. @Bossdaddy was your meter reading "0.L" or "0L" during that test?

 

Good catch Mel, thanks!!!

[Bossdaddy 209]

The meter I was using don't read OL I think reads 1. I'll go check it with the meter that starts out reading OL

[Bossdaddy 209]

Used different meter start reading was OL checked it still read OL

[retro 4,048]

Thanks Bossdaddy!

 

Ok, with the battery fully charged and the key off, make sure that everything is plugged back in.

 

Then poke a sharp pin through the insulation (until it contacts the copper wire good inside the insulation) on the Red/Yellow wire going to the 5p ECM connector. Poke that Red/Yellow wire in a location where it will be easy to seal it back up and where the pin cannot accidentally touch the frame.

 

Then turn the key on and measure voltage between the pin poked into the Red/Yellow wire and negative ground. The meter should read battery voltage. Does it?

 

Then while you are still measuring voltage on that poked in pin depress the "UP" shift button on the handlebar. Is the measured voltage the same as before you depressed the UP button, or did voltage drop? If voltage dropped what does it measure?

[Bossdaddy 209]

Voltage did not drop. I checked it twice with same readings.   

Edited June 4, 2021 by Bossdaddy

[Bossdaddy 209]

Crap I’ve got to go, I’m going to be late for graduation. Thanks got to go. 

[retro 4,048]

Ok, remove the pin from the Red/Yellow wire and seal it up with glue & tape or silicone gasket maker and tape. Whatever ya got handy that will seal that pin hole back up should work fine.

 

Turn the key off and unplug the speed sensor connector. See the pic for location. Then turn the key on and see if it shifts. If no shift then turn the key off and plug the speed sensor back in.

 

I am done with testing and satisfied that it's gotta be the ECM @Melatv, have you got any more ideas?

 

 

[Melatv 792]

Yes I would say ECM is bad also -- Big thanks for working this out together 👍

[retro 4,048]

Big thanks to you Mel! That was fun!

[retro 4,048]

Bossdaddy everything checks out, so ECM is the only part left to place the blame on. A new ECM costs about $259, used will be a lot less but it is still an expensive part.

 

So, since ya got nothing to lose I suggest that ya bake your ECM. Baking the ECM may make it work again, with a lil' bit of luck.

 

If you want to try baking the ECM (and your wife is OK with it) remove it from the rubber boot and place it on a tray or a folded sheet of tin foil and bake it in an oven at 200 degrees F for about 35-40 minutes. Allow the ECM to cool inside the oven then put it back on your Foreman and see if it shifts. Do not drop the ECM while handling it.

 

Let us know how it goes.

[retro 4,048]

Thanks for hanging in there with us Bossdaddy, we are having fun!

[slowindown 494]

This is a great thread by the way. 

[Bossdaddy 209]

Guys you are the best!! I’ve learned so much but couldn’t do it again without your help for sure. I did the speed sensor thing and it didn’t shift. I’ll cook the heck out of it tomorrow. I’ll update you on results. Thanks again. 

[Melatv 792]

Bossdaddy we both can say you been a good Apprentice going step by step with the testing. 

[Bossdaddy 209]

You guys are great teachers, I tried to do what I was told, after all it was for my benefit, y'all were helping me out and I appreciate it. The ECM is in the cooling stage right now.   

[Bossdaddy 209]

The cook job didn't work so I think I'm going with the new OEM one.

[retro 4,048]

Bummer. Just in case you don't have a Honda dealer near you, Rocky Mountain ATV is a good online OEM parts source that many of us buy from. The ECM is in the 450ES wire harness section (part #16 on the parts fiche) on their site:

 

https://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/oem-parts/Honda

 

Control Unit, Change

Honda Part # 38910-HN0-A12

USD $258.57

[retro 4,048]

@Bossdaddy if you are located in the USA I can send you a good used ECM that you can plug in for testing before you spend your money on the part if you wish? Postage won't cost ya a nickel and we'd all feel better about the diagnosis if we could provide absolute proof that we're right. Shoot me a PM if interested and we'll exchange addresses and I'll ship the ECM out to you ASAP.

[Bossdaddy 209]

Thanks retro, message is on it's way.

[retro 4,048]

Thanks Bossdaddy, Shipping 1st thing in the morning!

[Bossdaddy 209]

Great!!

[Bossdaddy 209]

Well I got retro's loaner and that didn't fix my problem. Both retro and Melatv worked hard on this one and I'm sure they will be scratching their heads. What to do next, I know what I'd like to do is start parting this thing out.

[Fishfiles 20,145]

I have had friends with ES ATVs that spent a bundle of time and money and always had problems that come and go --- Lance got feed up with trying to get his 350 right himself , so he spent $800 at the dealership and it never made one complete ride before getting stuck in gear , he sold it right after that 

 

 If you really like that  ATV and want to keep that one ,  then I would buy that ES by-pass harness , cause I think even if you get it working , there is a VERY good chance it will give you problems again  and  again ---------  seems there are some people who don't have problems , but also think the  majority do have problems along the way , it sure seems to me we have more ES guys with problems on this site than any other problem ----